Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area
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vivatifosi wrote: »Hi daveleeuk,
Good luck with the appeal, it does sound as though you have a good case.
The more I think about it, the more I worry, I scared that if I make an appeal, they might make all the flats (on E + F) upto G. Then everyone will hate me0 -
The VOA would need to have a really good case to put an E up to a G without it having been extended (not easy with a flat).
When I was researching tribunals, a guy lost a tribunal when a block of flats was built in front of his, thus losing his sea view. The VOA argued (successfully) that the flat was in the top end of the band, therefore the loss of sea view could equate to a fall within a band. Using that logic, it would be hard to see how you have a two band spread, if the flats are the same size. I can see that you could realistically be an F, but not a G, if the equivalent non-sea view flat is an E.
Use one of the house price search engines to work out the different in prices in 2002. If there is a big difference, try and speak to the previous owners and find out why. If there isn't, start challenging now!Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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That's why you have to do LOADS of research to make sure you really know what you are talking about when you make your appeal! The house price calculator alone is not a lot of help. You need real evidence of what your property would have cost in 1991.The more I think about it, the more I worry, I scared that if I make an appeal, they might make all the flats (on E + F) upto G. Then everyone will hate me
Even with all that you can still find the VOA change the bands of your neighbours. I does happen. I know.0 -
vivatifosi wrote: »The VOA would need to have a really good case to put an E up to a G without it having been extended (not easy with a flat).
When I was researching tribunals, a guy lost a tribunal when a block of flats was built in front of his, thus losing his sea view. The VOA argued (successfully) that the flat was in the top end of the band, therefore the loss of sea view could equate to a fall within a band. Using that logic, it would be hard to see how you have a two band spread, if the flats are the same size. I can see that you could realistically be an F, but not a G, if the equivalent non-sea view flat is an E.
Use one of the house price search engines to work out the different in prices in 2002. If there is a big difference, try and speak to the previous owners and find out why. If there isn't, start challenging now!
The only 'previous' prices I can find is the nationwide one linked from this site. I can't find any location specific ones, and I doubt an estate agent would help me for free. I know for a fact the flat was bought for 320,000 in 2002. And that it is worth 350,000 now - as the flats above (sea view) are 395,000. and the flats below are 320,000. As i'm on the middle floor Id stick mine at 350,000.
That's my dilemna though, the flats weren't there in 1991!
There are 20 flats.
Flat 1 - 2 bed. Sea View. 1st Floor. Band G
Flat 2 - 2 bed. Sea View. 1st Floor. Band G
Flat 3 - 2 bed. Sea View. 1st Floor. Band F
Flat 4 - 1 bed. Sea View. 1st Floor. Band E
Flat 5 - 2 bed. 1st Floor. Band E
Flat 6 - 2 bed. 1st Floor. Band E
Flat 7 - 2 bed. 1st Floor. Band E
Flat 8 - 2 bed. 1st Floor. Band E
Flat 9 - 2 bed. Sea View. 2nd Floor. Band G
Flat 10 - 2 bed. Sea View. 2nd Floor. Band G
Flat 11 - 2 bed. Sea View. 2nd Floor. Band G
Flat 12 - 1 bed. Sea View. 2nd Floor. Band G
Flat 13 - 2 bed. 2nd + 3rd Floor Duplex. Band F
Flat 14 - 3 bed. 2nd + 3rd Floor Duplex. Band E
Flat 15 - 3 bed. 2nd + 3rd Floor Duplex. Band F
Flat 16 - 3 bed. 2nd + 3rd Floor Duplex. Band F
Flat 17 - 2 bed. Sea View. 3rd Floor. Band G
Flat 18 - 2 bed. Sea View. 3rd Floor. Band G
Flat 19 - 2 bed. Sea View. 3rd Floor. Band G
Flat 20 - 1 bed. Sea View. 3rd Floor. Band G
Same colours = EXACT same layout. Bold = mine.
Min. current property value in building - 320,000
Max. current property value in building - 395,000
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Nope, not one of the house price calculators, one of the house price search engines. I use https://www.houseprices.co.uk and https://www.upmystreet.com, though they are all much the same. As they were sold new in 2002, you should be able to look up all of the sale prices for each flat, plus any subsequent sale info.
Look at my previous comments on incentives as I have been very successful in using information about incentives to get reductions in council tax (23 houses so far and rising)... As your flat (sorry at that price its definitely an apartment) was new at the time this is a factor that may well come into play.Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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vivatifosi wrote: »Nope, not one of the house price calculators, one of the house price search engines. I use www.houseprices.co.uk and www.upmystreet.com, though they are all much the same. As they were sold new in 2002, you should be able to look up all of the sale prices for each flat, plus any subsequent sale info.
Look at my previous comments on incentives as I have been very successful in using information about incentives to get reductions in council tax (23 houses so far and rising)... As your flat (sorry at that price its definitely an apartment) was new at the time this is a factor that may well come into play.
Lol, is there a difference between a flat and an apartment? You get flats down the road for over £2,000,000! Yet still im in 2nd top band
with a flat worth about 20% of that!
I'll take a look on those sites in a sec, thanks for the info. I also feel scared about appealing because I'm young, people don't take young people seriously and think they can fob us off.
!!!!!!! Zoopla, which I found through houseprices.co.uk reckons my place is now worth £568,783 I don't believe that for a second!
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Crikey Dave, £568k and 22 years old, you're not secretly rich and famous are you? If so, can we have your autograph when you win?Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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I am new to MSe so if this question has been asked before I aplogise.
Prompted by Martin's article I did the research to get my apartment's band down from E to D. The neighbourhood search showed that outwardly similar flats next door were also banded E but have a greater floor area than mine. In addition similar flats down the road were, and always have been D. Their only difference being a block of separate garages, whereas ours is underground. Still I thought we had a good case on the neighbourhood front.
Next step was to compare the most recent sale prices and then track these back to 1991 figures. This search again slapped my flat in band D with a good 10K to spare, next door in E and the ones down the road in D. So far so good. I even mentioned it to the residents committee as any challenge would obviously effect all other flat owners.
One last thing I did though was to take the price we paid in 1984 and put that through the Nationwide House Price Calculator which valued the flat in 1991 at 14k higher than the reverse valuation from the same site, and worst of all sending the valuation over the threshold into band E.
Now I do not know what to do next.
One method shows that the council's valuation was way off the mark and the other that it was spot on.
Any ideas anyone?0 -
Hi skint,
First of all welcome! Yours is a good name for this site.
I don't know the system with flats. Hopefully one of the regulars that know the way flats work in the VOA will be along soon and be able to fully answer your question.
For a freehold property, you can exclude the value of a garage if it is not in the curtilage. Thus with my house I can exclude the value because with my garage it is in a block. I'm not sure where you stand with yours being integrated in the same building as that may be included in the price. That by itself may give you a reason for having a higher banding versus those flats with garages in a different area. That's certainly something I'd ask the VOA.
As you've lived in the flat for a long time, can you remember whether any flats were sold in or around early 1991 or late 1990? If so you may be able to use these for a reference price. Very likely if they were that will be the price on which your banding was based. You can also check the microfilm of local papers at the library to see what asking prices were. I use the period of January - May 1991 as my reference framework when looking up prices, as something for sale in January would likely have completed around March/April.
As all the flats are similarly banded, you may have a problem launching an appeal as you've lived there so long. The VOA will likely say to you that if there was a problem with the band you should have appealed before and that the band is right anyway. If they do this, you can use the Freedom of Information Act to ask how the banding was arrived at for your property. Also get friendly with anyone who has moved in within the last six months as they have a right to a Tribunal (which makes things a lot easier, my neighbours all appealed off of the back of mine when I moved in and won).
There's lots more information on this subject on the 122 other pages, so when you get a moment, have a read through.
Hopefully this will give you some info to get started, and again, good luck!Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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Really sorry to join your thread, I can't see where I start a new one.
And this might be a dumb question but!
If your house has been rebanded to a lower band, can you automatically expect to be refunded the overpayment?
I ask because, out of the blue, my mother received a letter from her local Valuation Office saying that her house was to be rebanded from C to B and that 'this change is effective from 1st April 1993.'
I read that to mean she could expect repayment of the difference for all of those years.
But a later letter from the Council to advise her of the change in rate didn't mention repayment. I called them for her and the tax office worker sounded surprised that she was expecting it. She asked if the Valuation Officer had said as much. I read her the letter, she asked for the question to be put in writing plus a copy of the Valuation Office letter. We did all of that, hand delivered on 22 May, and have heard nothing.
I plan to phone tomorrow but would prefer to know if my mother has a right to the repayment before I make a fool of myself!
I would appreciate your guidance.0
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