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***HELP*** BW Legal FINAL NOTICE

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Thistle1010
Thistle1010 Posts: 9 Forumite
edited 18 March 2017 at 11:00PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hello everyone, I am new to both the forum and to handling a parking fine or Solicitor approach.


I received a letter in the post dated 13 March 2017 (the first I have received of what seems to be a string of letters) titled, FINAL NOTICE. The letter reads as follows;


Dear Sir


Our Client: Excel Parking Services Ltd
Account Number: XXXXXXXXXX
Vehicle Registration: XXXXXXX
Contravention Description: Parked in a restricted area of the car park.
Contravention Location: Middlesbrough Leisure Park Middlesbrough
Parking Charge Notice (PCN): Manual
Date of Contravention: 18 August 2014
Balance Due: £154.00


Further to our letter dated 10 February 2017 ("the First Letter") where we advised you that we are instructed by our client to recover the Balance in respect of the PCN. In the First Letter we requested that you either pay the Balance in full or provide detailed grounds for disputing the PCN, by the 26 February 2017. We advised that we are yet to receive a payment and/or a response to the First Letter.


Our client now requires full payment of the Balance within 17 days from the date of this letter, this date being, 30 March 2017, failing which our client has instructed us to commence County Court proceedings against you for recovery of the balance. For the avoidance of doubt the Balance relates to the £100.00 parking charge and the £54.00 for our client's initial legal fees, which were detailed in the car park terms and conditions.


County Court Proceedings
In the event our client issues County Court proceedings, and successfully obtains a County Court judgment ("CCJ"), you may likely be liable for the Balance, court fees, further solicitors' costs and statutory interest. Furthermore this will also result in a CCJ being entered against you. A CCJ may have a detrimental effect on your future creditworthiness and your employability. Our Client also reserves the right to commence enforcement proceedings against you for the recovery of the CCJ award.


We also wish to bring to your attention the case of ParkingEye Limited v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 in which the Supreme Court held that parking charges serve a legitimate commercial interest and are neither extravagant nor unconscionable. This case eliminates the main defence that you will have should the matter go to Court and will be relied upon, by our client, in any County Court proceedings.


You should also note that if your claim has already been processed through an Independent Appeal Service ("IAS") and an IAS has dismissed your appeal, then it is likely that a County Court will come to a similar conclusion and your defence will be unsuccessful.




I am looking for advice on how to handle this both before the deadline of 30 March 2017 and afterwards, should a CCJ be issued.


Here are the facts;
  • I am in possession of the original Parking Charge Notice from 2014
  • Reason for issue of Parking Charge Notice as stated on paper: Left Leisure Park
  • Parking Charge Notice states; Filmed: Yes
  • Number of Warning Signs: 1
  • The car was parked in a blue (free parking) space at the leisure park and the cinema was used on the leisure park.
  • I did not entertain the Parking Charge Notice from Excel as after doing some research at the time, the unquestionable consensus of similar/ same cases was that they could not enforce the Parking Charge Notices due to them not owning the land and not to pay.
  • I have not had any letters prior to the one received on 13 march 2017 from BW Legal
Having studied the letter and original Parking Charge Notice, the reasons for issue stated on both documents are different (hopefully this provides some form of leverage on my behalf on the matter).


Any advice and guidance you can provide to me on a starting point in challenging this letter and fine would be hugely appreciated. Many thanks and best regards.
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Comments

  • Thistle1010
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    Thank you Coupon-mad for your direction. I am unfamiliar with legal proceedings on such a matter so I do apologise if I have confused terminology. What is the next stage after this FINAL NOTICE, and what should I do at this present stage of the situation? I am going to take a look at the thread you have kindly recommended. Thanks again. Any further help and advice would be greatly appreciated to both get the ball rolling and quash his matter asap. Cheers everyone!!
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    edited 18 March 2017 at 8:10PM
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    as its a solicitors LBC then you reply and refute it (rebut it)

    the words for this have been reproduced on here hundreds of times and are generally based on replies by GAN over on pepipoo forums

    so for BW LEGAL letters, you ALWAYS reply and ALWAYS rebut using phrases gleaned from similar threads like yours (there are hundreds of them over the last 15 months or so, on here and on pepipoo)

    google is your friend for what you dont understand , as is the forum search box and suitable search words too , plus the NEWBIES sticky thread near the top of this forum

    it is likely that in the future this will turn into a court claim from Northampton (an MCOL , google it)

    once a court case has finished , there is a judgment , it is failure to pay this promptly (if you lose) that leads to the CCJ, in essence it is contempt of court (not paying the judgment)

    pay promptly and there is no CCJ

    a CCJ is not the same as an MCOL, it is the result of not dealing with it and/or not dealing with the judgment (if you lose)

    win in court (like lamilad did) and you pay nothing and no CCJ either

    you wont be getting this "quashed" and it wont be "resolved as soon as possible" either , this is a war of attrition and will probably take months to resolve , so get an xmas card for B W LEGAL and one for EXCEL too, as you will be still on their xmas card list for 2017 :)
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,355 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    edited 18 March 2017 at 7:53PM
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    I did not entertain the Parking Charge Notice from Excel as after doing some research at the time, the unquestionable consensus of similar/ same cases was that they could not enforce the Parking Charge Notices due to them not owning the land and not to pay.
    Not on any respectable private parking forum in August 2014! The law (and advice) changed two years prior to this. You could have killed this off in 2014 if you hadn't followed that path.

    What have you been reading, Mumsnet?
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Thistle1010
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    @Umkomaas I think the obvious mistake was not taking advice from MSE until now..... What could I have done back then which would not have me in this situation now/ or what has changed for Excel which now gives them better grounds to pursue these ludicrous fines?
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    these are INVOICES , (speculative invoices) not fines , no private company can "fine" you , they are not judges or courts or magistrates or the council either

    Excel moved to the IPC a couple of years ago which as the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you , is a kangaroo operation and kangaroo court in the interim stages

    the information you required started on here in march 2013 , so 4 years ago , when excel were BPA members and using that info could have killed this stone dead back then , at popla (like a relative of mine did against Excel later that year - so BEFORE yours)

    there have been various changes since then , which means that excel might have a better chance in court , notably the BEAVIS case

    but EXCEL have ALWAYS had the facility to go to court over this, that has been the case since the small claims court started 44 years ago , in 1973

    proving their case to a judge has always been their problem, and always will be , changes or no changes
  • Thistle1010
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    @Redx Thank you for this insight. I am slowly learning about this Frankensteins Monster and the powers that be, however, what I do not understand is if excel did not own the land back then in 2014 when I received the parking notice, how can they in any way shape or form stand a better chance now of enforcing and potentially winning a case, if they still do not own the land and but more to the point did not own it back then??? What possible grounds do they have to act as an enforcement company on land they have no ownership of? and as you have highlighted were a kangaroo company at the time anyway...
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    edited 18 March 2017 at 8:50PM
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    they only need to act as a contractor for the landholder, there is no requirement for EXCEL to own the land and generally speaking very few of these companies own the land , they are supposed to act on behalf of the landholder, just the same as the cleaning company that may clean the toilets or the catering company that provides the food

    so to be clear, they do not have to "own the land" at any stage , now or 3 years ago or even 10 years ago

    but they DO have to have a contract with the landholder , or one that "flows" through to them through a managing agent on behalf of the landholder , so there could be several contracts that ultimately start with the landholder and end with excel having some authority to act , which will be subject to the terms and conditions of the contract , plus another one allowing B W LEGAL to act on their behalf

    this is contract law, not parking per se , so who owns the land may not matter as long as the correct contracts are in place

    try reading the lamilad court cases and outcomes for a start , it may help your understandings
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,747 Forumite
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    edited 18 March 2017 at 11:44PM
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    @Umkomaas I think the obvious mistake was not taking advice from MSE until now..... What could I have done back then which would not have me in this situation now/ or what has changed for Excel which now gives them better grounds to pursue these ludicrous fines?

    In 2014 you would have won at POPLA because then, they were easy to beat, POPLA was a decent service we won 99% of the time and Excel were BPA members.
    what should I do at this present stage of the situation?
    Respond to the LBCCC/Final Notice (NO SAYING WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN DRIVING) but it won't quash it. This will be resolved after court claim, with a decent defence and probably a hearing.

    Respond only as registered keeper. Nothing about the driver! In August 2014, Excel had recently changed their NTK letters to remove any 'keeper liability' wording under the POFA and they 'assume the keeper was the driver' (with no evidence).

    That is their undoing in most cases, as long as the keeper defends and doesn't assist in identifying the driver. You can read Lamilad's threads - loads of people have beat Excel at hearings but he has done so twice, despite a dirty tricks campaign against him by someone.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Thistle1010
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    @Coupon-mad This makes for good reading and will surely assist me with my response. I am finding it hard to navigate and come across a suitable template or similar letter/email. If you have a link to a thread for one I could use/ amend it would be greatly appreciated.
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412 Forumite
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    edited 18 March 2017 at 11:49PM
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    Refer only to the keeper (you) and 'the driver'
This discussion has been closed.
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