IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.
VCS PCN at train station...no mention of by-laws
Options
Beefy88
Posts: 2 Newbie
Hi,
I received the NTK following a PCN at a train station car park issued by myparkingcharge, and managed by VCS. So my understanding is that only the driver can be pursued for the fine, given the land? However on the NTK there is no mention of any of the bylaws, and includes a warning at the bottom saying 'if we do not know the driver...We will have the right to recover...any unpaid balance from you'. I can't find any reference online to find out whether this particular train station car park is different (Northfield, birmingham), but could anyone help as to whether this is exempt?
I will be refusing to pay regardless, on unjust grounds, however want to know whether their letter is also grounds for complaint and taking further.
Many thanks for helping!
I received the NTK following a PCN at a train station car park issued by myparkingcharge, and managed by VCS. So my understanding is that only the driver can be pursued for the fine, given the land? However on the NTK there is no mention of any of the bylaws, and includes a warning at the bottom saying 'if we do not know the driver...We will have the right to recover...any unpaid balance from you'. I can't find any reference online to find out whether this particular train station car park is different (Northfield, birmingham), but could anyone help as to whether this is exempt?
I will be refusing to pay regardless, on unjust grounds, however want to know whether their letter is also grounds for complaint and taking further.
Many thanks for helping!
0
Comments
-
just appeal the postal notice (not the windscreen notice) using the template letter from the NEWBIES faq thread and treat it as a bylaws incident unless proved otherwise
they have to prove their case , so just appeal , then IGNORE0 -
I think I would add a line to the usual template appeal, asking VCS to explain the legal basis for their statement here, given that railway land is not 'relevant land':'if we do not know the driver...We will have the right to recover...any unpaid balance from you'PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Byelaws or contract law, they are still scammers.
This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for alleged breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.
Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They nearly always lose, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.
Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.
The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.
http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41
and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Hi, I received a rejection letter to my appeal, which also failed to address the 'station land' issue. I have pasted their lengthy reply.
We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice (CN) received on 22/03/2018.
Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our
main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
We note that you have declined to name the driver of your vehicle at the time of the incident in question. It is
important that we make you aware that in this case we may pursue you as the registered keeper of the vehicle for
the outstanding Charge, as per Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) .
The notice sent to you clearly states: Please be warned: that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day
after the Issue Date of this Notice, the amount of the unpaid Parking Charge specified in this Notice has not been
paid in full and we do not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, we will
have the right to recover from the registered keeper, any unpaid balance of the Parking Charge. This Notice will be
deemed to have been received by you on the second working day after the Issue Date stated above unless the
contrary is proved.
As members of the International Parking Community's (IPC) Accredited Operator Scheme, it is necessary for us to
evidence to the IPC that we have relevant authority to undertake parking management at the site concerned and that
our signs at that location are compliant in setting out the relevant terms and conditions of use. We will only answer
pertinent points at this stage.
The signs at the car park make it clear that the land is private property and that a Charge of £100 will be levied if
vehicles park outside of the Terms and Conditions displayed. Signs state that all vehicles must park wholly within the
markings of a designated parking bay. The above detailed vehicle was not correctly parked within the bay markings
therefore you became liable for the Charge advertised.
We maintain that the signs on this site meet the requirements set by the International Parking Community (IPC) Code
of Practice . The signs are large, prominent and legible ,so that any reasonable user of the car park would be aware
of their existence and nature, and would have a fair opportunity to read them if he or she wished to do so. It can
never be a defence to a claim in contract law to say, "I did not read the terms", so long as the existence of those
terms is reasonably advertised.
We note your comments in relation to the amount of the Charge Notice; our charges are neither extravagant nor
unconscionable and as such, are commercially justified and legitimately enforceable. This was supported by the
Supreme Court's decision in the case of ParkingEye v Beavis ([2015].
We are contracted by the landowner to manage and enforce parking on their private land on their behalf. This site
has been audited by the International Parking Community (IPC) and a copy of our authority has been provided to
them as part of that audit process. However, whilst we maintain that we do, in fact, have the authority of the
landowner to operate upon this site (being the principal in
the contract); the existence of this document has no legal bearing on the contract formed with the motorist. (See
Vehicle Control Services v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186, para 22 per Lewison LJ).
Whilst you have made a request under the principle 6 of the Data Protection Act 1998, unfortunately this does not
mean that you can simply demand us to cease processing your information and you fail to explain or meet the
requirements for a " section 10 Notice" within your letter as detailed below.
We are registered with the ICO for the processing of data which relates to the enforcement and recovery of parking
charges and in respect to you this related to the matter of a Charge Notice (CN), Ref VCS1968700 which was
issued to a vehicle registration .......on the date in question.
In the first instance you may find it helpful to review the information on the Information Commissioners Office website. Your request in principle can only be dealt with if the processing of information "causes
unwarranted and substantial damage or distress" and you must outline this in your request which you have failed to
do
We have fully reviewed this case and we are satisfied that the Charge Notice was correctly issued. We are unable to
accept the mitigating circumstances raised in your representations, your appeal is therefore rejected and the Charge
will stand; photographic evidence which supports this can be viewed at .......
any further advice? Thanks for any help.
Is there any way of determining whether this is in fact station land - it is Northfield station park and ride - centro.0 -
It is important that we make you aware that in this case we may pursue you as the registered keeper of the vehicle for the outstanding Charge, as per Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). The notice sent to you clearly states:
Please be warned: that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day
after the Issue Date of this Notice, the amount of the unpaid Parking Charge specified in this Notice has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, we will have the right to recover from the registered keeper, any unpaid balance of the Parking Charge.Northfield station park and ride - centro.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5567539
Same place? He beat VCS and there is lots of useful advice and example letters there!PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
you should have expected a rejection, it was 100% guaranteed , so as stated previously and in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread you are now in IGNORE mode
you can always ask the TOC for that station if it is land leased by them
you can also wait and see if this ever gets fleshed out in any court claim where the POC can be demanded and other relevant info , especially when the new DPA comes in next month (or afterwards)
if it is railway land and subject to bylaws, the bylaw breach should have been in the NTK and subsequent rejection
also get pictures of the signage at this station and a map and show where any signs are
you need to research this topic by reading other railway threads like METROLINK here in m/cr and also INDIGO threads and APCOA threads too, so you get the gist
if it is private land then VCS have 6 years to try a court claim (MCOL)
come back if you get any legal papers like an LBC or an MCOL, or if the TOC tried a penalty charge through the magistrates court within 6 months (you would be the first one ever if the latter happened- so a guinea pig - hint - this step never happens)
and as above, report them for misrepresentation
edit
that link above , in the court report it shows that there are 2 car parks, one subject to bylaws and one not , so worth checking which one the vehicle was parked in0 -
Report them to the DVLA and the IPC for stating that the POFA applies to railway land.
This is CENTRO where they have been able to convince a judge that it is not Rail land? Check the parking spaces are actually on Network Rail land. Some are and some are not.
Use Land Registry.
If Network Rail do confirm the spaces then come back. Don't bother about the IPC/DVLA as it is a waste of time.0 -
It's odd that a person on pepipoo lost a Centro case, yet MadHatter752 won his case.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
It's odd that a person on pepipoo lost a Centro case, yet MadHatter752 won his case.
Not really. Two different sites. One BW, one VCS in the chair.Check the parking spaces are actually on Network Rail land. Some are and some are not0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.1K Life & Family
- 247.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards