Any sparkies? Please help

Juniper-jenni · 18 January 2018 at 4:27PM

I rent a house for myself and my disabled daughter. I too am disabled.
The landlord is less than forthcoming and I have to do a lot of the repairs myself. We’ve lived here for almost ten years.
The shower broke a while ago. The light still came on so I’m assuming it didn’t trip the switch but the shower wouldn’t turn on. After months of asking the landlord to fix it (with no help) I asked if I could put in a new one. He agreed.
My brother (a competent handyman but not a qualified electrician) put down new Lino, nailed down the creaky floorboards, and fitted a new shower I paid for. I then attempted to pay for a qualified electrician to sign off the shower to say it’s safe. The electrician came out but was unable to complete the test as he couldn’t access the fuse box fully as its partly built into the wall and also he couldn’t see the pipe as it’s in the wall. He also mentioned that there was an incorrect and poorly fitted shower switch on the fuse box.

I now don’t know if the shower is safe to use but desperately need a shower as due to our disabilities neither me nor my daughter can use the bath.

Can anyone help? X

spadoosh · 18 January 2018 at 4:35PM

If it was a like for like replacement theres no need for an electrician. The electrics are about as difficult as changing a plug. And what are they signing?

What exactly has your brother done? (ie did he connect the lectrics)

and what exactly has the electrician said/done?

Juniper-jenni · 18 January 2018 at 4:38PM

Thanks for your reply,

My brother just replaced the shower, the connections etc were already the previous one.
The electrician did nothing, he had agreed to check the installation was safe and issue a certificatw if safety but he said he couldn’t do the test as he couldn’t access the fuse box fully or see the water pipe. He pointed out that the shower rcd was incorrect/poorly fitted and then left.

Juniper-jenni · 18 January 2018 at 4:39PM

Sorry just realised that wasn’t clear. My brother took the old shower out and had a go st fixing it before declaring it was well and truly dead. He then went and bought another shower and fitted it to the existing connections.

spadoosh · 18 January 2018 at 5:05PM

Youve kind of stuck between diy and professional. The proffessional will be 100% by the book. Cover themselves on all basis and be fully compliant.

The diyer will probably do a safe job but either lacks the full knowledge or doesnt require the level of cover needed.

As an example. I would say just change the shower. Its no different than changing the face of a plug. However as youve found out the electrician wants to make sure absolutely nothing can go wrong, the next electrician who comes along could easily spot shortcuts, report them and get them in lots of trouble. A lot more difficult for you to do with brother.

Id imagine the only way youll get a difinitive safe answer is from an electrician. Thatll have to be paid for. I dont know much about renting responsibilities so not sure where the liability would lie. Id guess at the LL but then it doesnt sounds like theyre the most helpful.

Heedtheadvice · 18 January 2018 at 8:46PM

The landlord has defined responsibilities in law and if the electrician found problems then the landlord has a legal obligation to ensure it is safe (as well as ensuring periodic inspections).
Initially point the problems as reported to you to the landlord to give a chance to render safe and a reasonable time to rectify and get certificated. If the RCD is incorrectly fitted then the shower could be unsafe so you should cease using it and get that made safe to use urgently.

See https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/your-landlords-safety-responsibilities
If that cuts no ice you then need to take it further.
Lots more authoritative info on the web to give details a search on landlord responsibility will reveal.

Ben84 · 18 January 2018 at 9:38PM

spadoosh wrote: »

Its no different than changing the face of a plug.

Mostly, people are appalingly bad at wiring plugs. I have opened hundreds of them and have seen barely any that were more than acceptable. A large fraction of them have the inner coloured wires just hanging out the bottom, wrong fuses, long stripped bare wires with only the ends poked in the terminals, etc. The easy as wiring a plug idea about electrical things can trivialise electrical wiring as just being stick the wires in the right terminals and tighten them up. Well, there's more to it than that, and many people already do plugs badly anyway.

spadoosh wrote: »

The diyer will probably do a safe job but either lacks the full knowledge or doesnt require the level of cover needed.

No. If someone lacks the full knowledge then they don't know what they're doing and cannot say with any certainty how safe the result is. There's no excuse for this. A new shower will come with clear instructions on what kind of equipment is needed in the consumer unit, the type of cable needed and how it should be installed in terms of placement, water and electrical connection. Anyone doing electrical work. professional or DIY should take time to read this and be very clear they understand all the points and look up any they're unclear about before doing it. DIY can be good, but anyone (including professionals as much as DIYers) should stop immediately if they ever find 'probably' is an accurate description of their understanding of what they're doing. It's impossible by the nature of the situation to assess the risks of doing something you don't understand the purpose of.

Electric showers are a particuarly dangerous combination. Aside from being high amp appliances that need good connections and correctly sized wiring and fuse/breaker to avoiding burning up the wires/connections, they contain water and are used by wet people standing in earthed bathtubs. If something goes wrong, for example water gets inside the case, things are going to get bad. After proper installation, the last thing protecting the user is the RCD, so if as suggested there's a problem with that, I wouldn't reccomend anyone use it on that concern alone. The shower may appear to work, but there's many ways to get electrical things working without them being as safe as possible, or even decently safe.

Personally, I think more pressure should be put on the landlord in this situation to maintain the property.

VfM4meplse · 18 January 2018 at 10:57PM

Some brothers are just wonderful :A

And unfortunately, some landlords are complete a*seholes.

knightstyle · 18 January 2018 at 11:40PM

I just wonder how you can connect the RCD wrongly? It may be that it is the wrong RCD or MCB in the fuse box and this could be because the new shower is a higher wattage than the old one.
You really need a professional to give a proper opinion.

Juniper-jenni · 19 January 2018 at 10:46AM

The RCD is not in line with the others on the fuse box, I think that’s where the error was made.

I’m terrified of a revenge eviction. I’m at a loss at what to do though. We had a situation before where the house alarm wouldn’t stop going off. The neighbours were furious. I rang the landlord for days and in the end paid someone to fix it.
In ten years there’s been no inspection. There’s been no contact. I don’t even have a contract! I had a short hold contract when I first moved in and not had anything else. I don’t even know who the landlord is now......I liase with a ‘housing manager’ that does nothing and as far as I’m aware is not the owner. My former landlord said he no longer owns the property however when I had the shower issue and contacted him he said to re-contact the housing manager and if he doesn’t help to get back in touch. So if he no longer owns the house why is he invested in helping......

It’s a very stressful situation as I don’t want to be made homeless.

baldelectrician · 19 January 2018 at 12:58PM

spadoosh wrote: »

If it was a like for like replacement theres no need for an electrician. The electrics are about as difficult as changing a plug. And what are they signing?

What exactly has your brother done? (ie did he connect the lectrics)

and what exactly has the electrician said/done?

Not really
The manufacturers instructions over ride any wiring regulations.

There may ne 'no need' but when doing work there may be issues- for example

Is the water / gas bond OK (if not works cannot proceed)
As the RCD isn't sitting OK- this may mean the RCD is not compatible with the existing consumer unit (possible fire issue)
Is there a decent earth reading (Zs) - if not the MCB / RCD may not trip in time

If I get called to things like this I like to cover my bottom- I usually send in a notice in writing telling the client the system needs upgraded / rectified.
From my point of view- if something untoward were to happen I could be pursued for possible negligence etc, if I have told client that not to use an item then I am covered.

It also helps that my calls are recorded (and the client gets a message saying this each time they call)

If you are in Scotland you have more rights- the landlord MUST have an electrical check (EICR)

Any sparkies? Please help

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