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ih8stress
Posts: 1,933 Forumite
I purposely asked if there was planning permission on a rear single storey extension, (done before the current owner moved in) before offering on a bungalow.
The Estate Agent checked with the Sellers' Solicitor who confirmed that they could get the paperwork from the council, so I put in my offer.
6 weeks down the line, I have just found out that pp is not available after all. The Sellers' Solicitor has approached the council who say that nothing going back as far as 1974 is showing.
The property was built sometime in the 70's and extended in the 80's (assumed dates in my survey) so it falls well outside of the 4 year clause for pp but not building regs.
As the Solicitor approached the council an Indemnity is not possible but I would not have accepted this anyway as they do not protect against shoddy work etc.
There are also a couple of Covenants, one stating that any alterations need written consent first. My Solicitor doubts that the extension or garage have these. A fence has also been built which contravenes a Covenant.
Should I be trying to get retrospective building regs ('regularisation') from the Seller?
Does it actually 'de-value' the property now?
I'm also concerned about re-selling and the possibility of restricting future buyers and lenders to people who are okay with Indemnities (and not being able to disclose that until after an offer is accepted).
Thank you in advance
The Estate Agent checked with the Sellers' Solicitor who confirmed that they could get the paperwork from the council, so I put in my offer.
6 weeks down the line, I have just found out that pp is not available after all. The Sellers' Solicitor has approached the council who say that nothing going back as far as 1974 is showing.
The property was built sometime in the 70's and extended in the 80's (assumed dates in my survey) so it falls well outside of the 4 year clause for pp but not building regs.
As the Solicitor approached the council an Indemnity is not possible but I would not have accepted this anyway as they do not protect against shoddy work etc.
There are also a couple of Covenants, one stating that any alterations need written consent first. My Solicitor doubts that the extension or garage have these. A fence has also been built which contravenes a Covenant.
Should I be trying to get retrospective building regs ('regularisation') from the Seller?
Does it actually 'de-value' the property now?
I'm also concerned about re-selling and the possibility of restricting future buyers and lenders to people who are okay with Indemnities (and not being able to disclose that until after an offer is accepted).
Thank you in advance
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Comments
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Nobody with any sense is going to get worked up about a lack of consents for an extension built in the 80s (would it even have needed planning?). If it was "shoddy work" then surely signs of that would have become apparent in the past 27+ years?0
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Don't forget that covenants usually have nothing to do with planning permission / building regs. Your solicitor will be able to advise who has the benefit of them, if anyone, and the likelihood of them being enforced.0
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Possible issues:
* council enforces planning consents and forces you to knock down. 4 year rule. Not going to happen
* council enforces building regs and forces you to knock down or re-build to current standards. 2 year rule. Not going to happen
* shoddy workmanship means extension falls down. 30 years old? Would have happened already if going to
* shoddy workmanship means extension is poorly insulated or otherwise not to current standards. 30 years old so would not be to current standards anyway0 -
We had a similar experience; and took the view it was not a real problem.
We bought a house 5 years ago; built in the 1980's, which some time after that but prior to the last owner buying it, had had a structural internal wall removed to open up the ground floor, but without any contemporary paperwork.
The last owner had simply commissioned a structural survey when he bought it, to give it the all-clear. In the unlikely event of a problem, he'd have claimed on the surveyor's professional indemnity.
Fast-forward ten years or more to our buying it, and we learned that as the surveyor is only accountable to their client, we wouldn't be covered... unless we re-comissioned a new survey...
Which we didn't bother to do, as there had been no movement or cracking in the 10-15 years since it was done... and we don't plan to sell any time soon, so such concerns will, by then, be lost in the mists of time.
I am however getting 3 Council inspections and a building notice on my own current conversion of a garage; for 300-odd quid, less than 2% of the project cost it's daft not to!0 -
I can understand you being irritated by this, as you went to the trouble of asking at the outset.
However, the EA probably just told you the paperwork would be got hold of from the council as your solicitor would often do this as part of normal transactions - the buyer's solicitor would make sure these consents existed in the course of their searches. It would not be usual for a seller's solicitor to have access to the actual paperwork before a transaction was well underway.
For future reference you are quite likely to be able to find out for yourself whether planning permission exists by going on to the council's website and doing a planning application search. Some authorities also publish building regs applications as well. So if these things are important to you, you can always do the leg work (or finger work on the keyboard) yourself.0 -
Thank you to everyone for taking the time to respond. I have taken all your comments on board.
Hoploz: That is good to know for the future, thanks.0 -
For future reference you are quite likely to be able to find out for yourself whether planning permission exists by going on to the council's website and doing a planning application search. Some authorities also publish building regs applications as well. So if these things are important to you, you can always do the leg work (or finger work on the keyboard) yourself.
As a matter of interest , does/could this have the same effect as if a solicitor had openly approached council to check , and if no planning was in place, you then couldnt get an indemnity put in place. ie do online searches draw councils attention to look for possible discrepancies?0 -
ANGLICANPAT wrote: »do online searches draw councils attention to look for possible discrepancies?
While in theory they could, I've never heard of it happening (councils typically don't have enough resources to pursue this sort of thing anyway), or of insurance policies which would be invalidated by it.0 -
ANGLICANPAT wrote: »As a matter of interest , does/could this have the same effect as if a solicitor had openly approached council to check , and if no planning was in place, you then couldnt get an indemnity put in place. ie do online searches draw councils attention to look for possible discrepancies?
People search old planning all the time.
I've searched properties to find out what's been approved etc, even when I've only been thinking about a house purchase nearby.
More recently, I've done it because I'm just plain nosy!
It may be useful, for a variety of practical reasons : for example, finding the names of architects and other intermediaries who have submitted plans successfully.0 -
It's information in the public domain.0
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