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Alexandra93
Posts: 4 Newbie
Hello,
I have been renting a flat for nearly 2 years. Last year there was a plumbing incident which caused some heavy damages to the flat below. I used to flush flushable wet wipes in the toilets. It apparently clogged the toilets below and it also caused some water leaks out of the drain. This is the water leaks which caused some damages to the flat below.
The landlord paid for the damages and asked me to stop flushing wet wipes. I stopped flushing wet wipes but the same problem happened one month ago. The drain was leaking and it caused the same damages to the flat below.
The plumber found some wet wipes when he cleaned the drain. Therefore my landlord is accusing me to still flush wet wips and wants me to pay for the damages. I disagree with my landlord. I have 3 points:
1) I deny flushing wet wipes. I stopped doing it after the first incident.
2) I believe that the drain was not totally cleaned after the first incident. Some wet wipes
stayed inside the drain and later caused the second incident.
3) I believe that the quality of the drain is very bad. A clogged toilet should not cause some water leaks if the drain is normally built. It is either too old or badly designed or both. And I believe that the bad quality of the drain is responsible for the damages.
I have not yet presented my arguments to my landlord. But let’s assume that he doesn’t agree with me and that we cannot find an agreement. The damages are a bit below £5,000.
What is the next step if I cannot find an agreement with my landlord? What do you advise me to do?
Thanks in advance!
PS: all the wet wipes which were flushed were labelled “flushable”. I never had any trouble with them in my previous flats. But I learned since that incident that the lable “flushable” should not be trusted!
I have been renting a flat for nearly 2 years. Last year there was a plumbing incident which caused some heavy damages to the flat below. I used to flush flushable wet wipes in the toilets. It apparently clogged the toilets below and it also caused some water leaks out of the drain. This is the water leaks which caused some damages to the flat below.
The landlord paid for the damages and asked me to stop flushing wet wipes. I stopped flushing wet wipes but the same problem happened one month ago. The drain was leaking and it caused the same damages to the flat below.
The plumber found some wet wipes when he cleaned the drain. Therefore my landlord is accusing me to still flush wet wips and wants me to pay for the damages. I disagree with my landlord. I have 3 points:
1) I deny flushing wet wipes. I stopped doing it after the first incident.
2) I believe that the drain was not totally cleaned after the first incident. Some wet wipes
stayed inside the drain and later caused the second incident.
3) I believe that the quality of the drain is very bad. A clogged toilet should not cause some water leaks if the drain is normally built. It is either too old or badly designed or both. And I believe that the bad quality of the drain is responsible for the damages.
I have not yet presented my arguments to my landlord. But let’s assume that he doesn’t agree with me and that we cannot find an agreement. The damages are a bit below £5,000.
What is the next step if I cannot find an agreement with my landlord? What do you advise me to do?
Thanks in advance!
PS: all the wet wipes which were flushed were labelled “flushable”. I never had any trouble with them in my previous flats. But I learned since that incident that the lable “flushable” should not be trusted!
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Comments
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If you ceased to flush the things down the toilet when it was requested, I would stick to my guns; 5k is quite a pop.0
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Which other properties' loos feed into the same drain? Could be another, not yours at all.
Jx2023 wins: *must start comping again!*0 -
Even the people who clean the sewers suggest that people don't flush wet wipes down the toilet because they don't break up. Toilet paper disintegrates in the toilet and the drain. Wet wipes can get all the way down a sewer and still remain in one piece. There has been a lot of public information about the problem of wet wipes blocking sewers. The fact that the wet wipes don't break up is what causes them to block drains and sewers and it can be a serious problem. So unless your drain takes waste from other flats as well the wet wipes that have caused the latest problem are still because you flushed them down the toilet. Which makes you responsible for the latest problem.0
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Alexandra93 wrote: »PS: all the wet wipes which were flushed were labelled “flushable”. I never had any trouble with them in my previous flats. But I learned since that incident that the lable “flushable” should not be trusted!
It also depends on amount, I think most brand advise not to flush more than one or two to avoid clogging but it's best to have a sanitary bin in the bathroom (like those used in Greece, with no see content) to avoid the problem.
Re the issue, even if you have stopped there might be a build up and if it's determined that the sole cause of the leak is the flushable wipes you may need to come to some agreement with the LL if their insurance doesn't cover it.EU expat working in London0 -
The OP was talking about ones labelled 'flushable' - okay, so they're obviously not as flushable as the brand makes out, but the fact they stopped using them once they found this out surely means they're not liable. It's not the standard wet wipes that most people now know not to flush.Even the people who clean the sewers suggest that people don't flush wet wipes down the toilet because they don't break up. Toilet paper disintegrates in the toilet and the drain. Wet wipes can get all the way down a sewer and still remain in one piece. There has been a lot of public information about the problem of wet wipes blocking sewers. The fact that the wet wipes don't break up is what causes them to block drains and sewers and it can be a serious problem. So unless your drain takes waste from other flats as well the wet wipes that have caused the latest problem are still because you flushed them down the toilet. Which makes you responsible for the latest problem.
If you can reach the plumber who first came out, see if you can get him to guarantee that there were none left in the drain/pipe somewhere (mention it may go to small claims court or whatever). If he can't, I really don't see how it can be your problem. Your LL's word against yours I suppose. If other properties use the same drain, the liability is even less yours.
Jx2023 wins: *must start comping again!*0 -
I wonder about these 'leaks'.
Drains don't leak unless they are cracked or broken, and wet-wipes (flushable or otherwise) don't crack drains.
Overflow? Yes. Leak? No.
But this may be a matter of terminology. OP, is English your 1st language?0 -
If you agree there were wet wipes found the second time, there are 3 possibilities:
1) You continued to flush wet wipes
2) You ceased to flush wet wipes but they were the old ones still in the system
3) You ceased to flush wet wipes but they are originating from another flat which feeds that same drain.
I would argue that with (1) or (2) they are still your wet wipes regardless of the timing, and hence your responsibility. The fact that the LL chooses not to charge you for the first incident doesn't mean you weren't liable for the damage caused then / by those early wet wipes. Its not upto the LL / plumber to advise you not to flush them, if your (well meaning) actions still caused the damage.
Of course if (3) is the case then you are not liable but you should be able to find this out easily.0 -
Not covered by insurance?0
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Alexandra93 wrote: »I don't know, it is a good point. I will ask the landlord.
Do you know if it is legally bound for my landlord to pay for an insurance building?
And would it be illegal for him to ask me to pay for the full damages if the insurance covers a part of it?
If you're in a flat (as you mentioned) highly likely the flat has insurance. Pretty much all flat are leasehold (in England) and the lease require to have insurance of some sort (wether LL directly or the freeholder).
Whether the insurance covers the flushable wipes issue it depends (I'd say no), also more likely will make the premium go up.
See similar threads: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?72586-Blocked-drain-who-is-responsibleEU expat working in London0
This discussion has been closed.
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