Court Case Gladstones next week, Court bundle finally received!

teccom · 1 June 2017 at 5:30PM

Okay found the Jopson case in the newbie section, but the unloading argument is surely for the driver, I wouldn't want to muddle that now I think going to court with copies of the letter below I sent advising of driver, and additionally evidence I was not there with the note of POF rules someone else mentioned:-

POFA:

Conditions that must be met
5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—

(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but

(b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

(b) is no longer applicable as the know the driver.
Incorporated in to my statement should be the way to go, the letters sent informing of driver at LBC was as follows:-

Dear Sir
PCN Number

Vehicle Registration Number XYZ
I am the registered keeper of the above mentioned vehicle.
I am writing to acknowledge the letter before county court claim dated 02/12/16, however received
in the post on 07/12/16 and am writing to inform you that I was not the driver of the vehicle on the
date of the alleged 'parking event'.
Therefore you must pursue the driver, whose details are:
Name
ADDRESS

PLEASE NOTE: This discharges my obligation as Registered Keeper under PoFA 2012 and any court
proceedings will be defended on that basis.
I look forward to receiving confirmation from you that you will cease all further action against me
with immediate effect.
Yours faithfully
Signed

Coupon-mad · 1 June 2017 at 6:00PM

but the unloading argument is surely for the driver,

No, the decision is about there being no contract if a driver (whether the defendant or not) was unloading or otherwise briefly stopped for a ''minor vicissitude'' like delivering something, reading signs even.

As a registered keeper appellant you do need to have the argument up your sleeve that there was no contract with the driver, you need that aspect because - if the Judge thinks there is a case for liability - you are being held to account for the actions of a driver.

So you should use the Jopson Appeal case if showing that a stop - by an unnamed driver - was temporary.

teccom · 1 June 2017 at 6:08PM

I see and thank you, so I will look at the Jopson case too.

I still feel it unjust that I have been pursued despite informing whom the driver was in writing, as I stated I think they felt it was too late for an effective "reset" at LBC and I will itemise this in my statement.

Currently I am reading the POF section 4 guidance which I have printed off to take to court high lighted in the relevant sections.

I will post on here my WS, any continued help is welcome and thanks so far.

Coupon-mad · 1 June 2017 at 6:10PM

I think they felt it was too late for an effective "reset" at LBC and I will itemise this in my statement.

The POFA makes it clear that a keeper can certainly transfer liability to the driver 'before proceedings commence'. LBC stage is undoubtedly (''before claim'' gives it away) 'before proceedings!

You cannot be held legally liable if the driver's name and address was provided before proceedings. It is that simple.

Don't upload via MCOL if you are now dealing with the local court - I am confused - are you still dealing only with the CCBC?

teccom · 1 June 2017 at 6:39PM

Thanks so it really does seem I should keep it sweet and simple.

I have just ready 90% ish of Lamilad on Pepipoos case:-

forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=106959&st=160

A great read he stayed on the PoF non conformance, and refused to identify the driver even when the Judge allowed the Claimant to cross reference him, my point is this, should i bring copies of my original letters and know they will shortly no doubt go after my guy or just state I have previously furnished them with that information?

teccom · 1 June 2017 at 6:58PM

CCBC

Had to Google that LOL

No it was transferred to my local court.

Right going to take a punt of a short defence.

Lamilad · 1 June 2017 at 7:07PM

If you have provided the driver details to the claimant before receiving the MCOL then you have discharged your liability and I cannot see how they can possibly proceed with this.

See what some of the more legally minded posters say but I would be tempted to submit a preliminary statement to the judge stating that you have provided the drivers details (before they issued the MCOL) along with proof of such. As you have discharged your liability the claimant had no right or reason to issue proceedings against. They should take the matter up with driver. The case against you has no prospect of success and should be struck out at the preliminary stage.

teccom · 1 June 2017 at 7:39PM

I am going to deliver my WS to the court tomorrow by hand, email Gladrags but are you suggesting I should submit something else in addition OR instead?

Coupon-mad · 1 June 2017 at 8:21PM

I would include a request for the case to be struck out and include a version of LoadsofChildren123's costs application:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mc7xhbc2tsuz384/COSTS%20APPLICATION.docx?dl=0

You want some costs awarded as punitive measure at the court's discretion - so try that! Adapt it to suit, of course.

Include the proof that you did give the driver's name and address already. And include the point in schedule 4 that says a keeper discharges liability if they give the name and serviceable address of the driver, before proceedings commence.

The Judge will not do this for you and will not be familiar with the POFA Sch 4. Now is the time to push it all over like a house of cards and ask the Judge to recompense you for the 'vexatious' claim, which was wholly unreasonable from start to finish.

teccom · 1 June 2017 at 8:36PM

Shall i take along the duplicate letters I sent to gladrags then as proof, I didn't really want to thinking about it as my guy will likely get chased, or is this the best course and just help him fight on other grounds later if they go after him?

Court Case Gladstones next week, Court bundle finally received!

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free