Smart meters - what is the catch?

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  • Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc
    Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc Posts: 6,558 Organisation Representative
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    JDC2017 wrote: »
    A few weeks ago a meter reader called at the door for access to read the meter. Whilst reading the meter he told me that the area was being fitted with smart meters and he had to arrange appointments for smart meters to be fitted with those people found at home. The meter reader then said that he would need to check all the appliances in the house and he duly inspected the meters, gas cooker, warm air system and flues etc. He then phoned his head office and an appointment was duly made for a few weeks hence.

    The meter fitters arrived on the agreed date (two fitters in two Eon vans). One fitter said he would have to replace a gas pipe as well as the gas meter and the other fitter said that would replace the electric meter and asked to be shown all the electrical and gas appliances in the house even going into the loft.

    As it happens, there had been a small gas leak on our previous suppliers (npower) side of the gas supply a few years ago which meant that npower replaced all their gas pipework up to our gas meter. Additionally, the gas meter was replaced with a new gas meter approx four years ago so the gas meter and its pipework had previously all been thoroughly tested, checked and passed by experienced engineers.

    The fitters were finished in a couple of hours and the one who had fitted the new electric meter began explaining how things worked and the handed me a card headed 'Safety Notice' which went on to state that: 'It appears that the gas installation pipework fitted at your property may not have Electrical Equipotential bonding correctly fitted . I am required under section 18(2) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use Regulations) 1998 to advise you that the Electrical Installation should be checked by a competent electrical contractor.' The electric meter fitter then pointed to an electrical earth connection and stated that it was up to me to find and employ an electricial contractor to certify the electrical work as safe.

    I immediately realised that this certification would cost me a minimum of £150 - £200. I told the Eon employees that the installation had been previously classed as safe and at no time during their two surveys had I been informed that the installation would require to be certified as safe or indeed would involve me in any expense. I also told them that, since their work had caused the installation to be not safe, I regarded their job as not being complete and asked for the telephone number of their supervisor. The senior fitter repeatedly refused to give the telephone number of his supervisor saying he was not allowed to give the number out to people and would only refer me to EON Customer Serices.

    Despite being politely requested to wait whilst Eon Customer Services were contacted, the fitters immediately collected their tools and left with no further explanation as to the work they had done, how the meters worked or why the meter display screens were blank etc. Indeed, such was their haste to leave that they even had to be called back to replace the entrance cover to the loft.

    The Eon Customer Services number simply rings out and out with no reply and a link for eon-uk.com/smartmeterinstallfeedback is either broken or dead.

    All in all, having experienced an Eon Smart Meter installation, I would be quite cautious of accepting Eons smart meter offer at face value. In the event of accepting their offer I would also suggest being very clear indeed as to what work is to be done, who is responsible for certification and what your costs and expenses are going to be.


    Hope this helps.

    Hello JDC2017 and welcome to the Forums.

    I'm sorry you're unhappy with the work our smart meter technicians did. I'd recommend raising this directly with our smart teams. Contact details are on our website under 'Help and Support.' They'll raise a complaint, investigate the job done and offer a resolution. They'll also be able to help you understand the meters better and, if required, arrange further instruction.

    As with all work of this kind, whether on smart or traditional meters, our technicians have a duty of care to point out to customers any potential problems or risks they see. This includes where installations don't meet current industry standards. Sometimes, these things aren't apparent until the work is actually being done. Not saying this is the case here, it's just something that can happen.

    On the meter, the displays could be in standby mode. Depending on the make, pressing any buttons on the meter might re-activate the display. Again, our smart teams will be able to help with this.

    Hope this helps point you in the right direction JDC2017.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Hasbeen
    Hasbeen Posts: 4,404 Forumite
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    JDC2017 wrote: »
    A few weeks ago a meter reader called at the door for access to read the meter. Whilst reading the meter he told me that the area was being fitted with smart meters and he had to arrange appointments for smart meters to be fitted with those people found at home. The meter reader then said that he would need to check all the appliances in the house and he duly inspected the meters, gas cooker, warm air system and flues etc. He then phoned his head office and an appointment was duly made for a few weeks hence.

    The meter fitters arrived on the agreed date (two fitters in two Eon vans). One fitter said he would have to replace a gas pipe as well as the gas meter and the other fitter said that would replace the electric meter and asked to be shown all the electrical and gas appliances in the house even going into the loft.

    As it happens, there had been a small gas leak on our previous suppliers (npower) side of the gas supply a few years ago which meant that npower replaced all their gas pipework up to our gas meter. Additionally, the gas meter was replaced with a new gas meter approx four years ago so the gas meter and its pipework had previously all been thoroughly tested, checked and passed by experienced engineers.

    The fitters were finished in a couple of hours and the one who had fitted the new electric meter began explaining how things worked and the handed me a card headed 'Safety Notice' which went on to state that: 'It appears that the gas installation pipework fitted at your property may not have Electrical Equipotential bonding correctly fitted . I am required under section 18(2) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use Regulations) 1998 to advise you that the Electrical Installation should be checked by a competent electrical contractor.' The electric meter fitter then pointed to an electrical earth connection and stated that it was up to me to find and employ an electricial contractor to certify the electrical work as safe.

    I immediately realised that this certification would cost me a minimum of £150 - £200. I told the Eon employees that the installation had been previously classed as safe and at no time during their two surveys had I been informed that the installation would require to be certified as safe or indeed would involve me in any expense. I also told them that, since their work had caused the installation to be not safe, I regarded their job as not being complete and asked for the telephone number of their supervisor. The senior fitter repeatedly refused to give the telephone number of his supervisor saying he was not allowed to give the number out to people and would only refer me to EON Customer Serices.

    Despite being politely requested to wait whilst Eon Customer Services were contacted, the fitters immediately collected their tools and left with no further explanation as to the work they had done, how the meters worked or why the meter display screens were blank etc. Indeed, such was their haste to leave that they even had to be called back to replace the entrance cover to the loft.

    The Eon Customer Services number simply rings out and out with no reply and a link for eon-uk.com/smartmeterinstallfeedback is either broken or dead.

    All in all, having experienced an Eon Smart Meter installation, I would be quite cautious of accepting Eons smart meter offer at face value. In the event of accepting their offer I would also suggest being very clear indeed as to what work is to be done, who is responsible for certification and what your costs and expenses are going to be.


    Hope this helps.

    There are no costs or expenses? as it is only a recommendation to get the bonding installed to comply with current fittings.

    You can get it done if you wish, it means running an earth wire from the gas pipe back to the earth point at the meter/consumer unit.

    But along with the majority of the properties in the UK who do not have it, it is not something to be worried about.
    The world is not ruined by the wickedness of the wicked, but by the weakness of the good. Napoleon
  • MothballsWallet
    MothballsWallet Posts: 15,852 Forumite
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    Okay, I haven't read the full thread (shame on me), but I'll weight in with my opinion on smart meters for what it's worth:

    I want smart meters, but I'll wait until I can get a SMETS2-compatible one because I do switch suppliers to get a better deal so a SMETS1-compatible meter probably isn't any good to me unless it can be made compatible with the DCC.

    People saying the suppliers should be given the right to cut people's energy off if they refuse one: well, I'm a bit on the fence over this - I can see sacsquacco's point on energy theft, but this does put the UK at risk of breaking European and UN treaty agreements. Access to clean water is a UN defined right, and I think access to gas & electricity for heating and cleaning may also be a defined right.

    Oh, and to walkon: the EM spectrum is very broad - it starts with radio waves at the low end (so Hertz (Hz) up to Megahertz (MHz)), infrared, visible light, ultraviolet, microwaves, X rays and gamma rays at the high end.

    X and gamma ray exposure can cause radiation sickness, cancer and even death in high enough exposures There are also cosmic rays that are outside the EM spectrum that can also cause severe damage to the human body.

    (Btw, potholer54 is former BBC science correspondent Peter Hadfield.)

    Cancers can also be caused by sufficient exposure to certain chemicals (such as benzene, which is used in petrol) and beta radiation.

    (Also btw, I put that list together based on memory of my secondary school physics and chemistry knowledge - radio communications was a specialist topic module on my physics syllabus.)

    If you want to reduce your EM exposure risk while using a mobile phone, then get a headset or an earpiece.
  • JDC2017
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    Thanks for all the very helpful suggestions and tips. Hopefully, I can clarify some doubts as follows;

    The meter and its pipework were 'legal' prior to eon replacing it. The smaller replacement meter and its new pipework layout means that the meters earth bonding now requires a Safety Notice.

    Domestic electrical work has, since January 2005, been subject to Building Control Regulations and has to be certified by a 'competent person' who is registered under the scheme. Part P of the Building Control Regulations covers alterations to existing circuits etc and is meant to prevent fires and electric shocks. Any Wiring is meant to conform to BS7671 standards. Changing a light bulb or replacing a fauly switch is OK but anything beyond that is not.

    I am not a 'competent person' to run extra earth cable or resite an earth bonding connection. Also, selling our house in the future will mean supplying certificates relating to any wiring alterations.

    Eon never informed me, prior to work starting, that I would be advised to employ an electrical contractor to fully complete the job.

    As for suggestions that the Safety Notice is just advice and can be disregarded - well everything is ok so long as everything is ok but If something goes wrong then, of course, disregarding the Safety Notice becomes important.

    It will all be sorted out of course but, all in all, I still think its unfair for ordinary householders to be misled after promises of free installation.
  • Carrot007
    Carrot007 Posts: 4,534 Forumite
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    edited 11 June 2017 at 2:45PM
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    JDC2017 wrote: »
    Eon never informed me, prior to work starting, that I would be advised to employ an electrical contractor to fully complete the job.

    It's not their fault it is not compliant.

    Nor are they forcing you to fix it. If it was a major problem they would have capped off the gas.

    Also anyone working on the gas should previously have told you this as it is a requirement to test for all sorts of things after the gas goes off and on again. You can't blame them for previous idiots doing half a job.

    I did not have bonding either. But when I got my kitchen hob changed they added it at no extra cost. a couple of connectors and a few metres of earth cable is not much.
  • badmemory
    badmemory Posts: 7,794 Forumite
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    JDC are you saying that it was compliant before they touched it and wasn't afterwards? If so then a letter marked COMPLAINT making this clear would seem like a good idea.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
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    edited 11 June 2017 at 3:38PM
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    JDC2017 wrote: »
    Thanks for all the very helpful suggestions and tips. Hopefully, I can clarify some doubts as follows;

    The meter and its pipework were 'legal' prior to eon replacing it.

    But what do you mean by 'legal'? It's not illegal to have an existing installation that's not compliant with current regs, it's just illegal to do any new work that's non compliant. New editions of the wiring regulations are not retrospective, otherwise every house in the country would need rewiring each time they're revised. I doubt replacing a gas pipe will count as new electrical work as long as they replaced the bonding as they found it, but it's reasonable that they would leave you with a warning if it's not up to date.

    Unless they have changed your electrical installation in some way, it's no less safe than it was before they came, in which case it's not their job to upgrade it.
  • vanginger
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    Hi
    Hoping someone here can help us out too. We got our Smart Meter with nPower in April and then switched to EDF just last month.
    I do realise that it may well lose it's connectivity with our provider having switched but it did seem to work for a few days, I am sure the tariff changed on-screen.
    However, the smartmeters outside suddenly stopped communicating with the display in the kitchen. Any time I try turn it on now, it just says connecting to smart meter. Now surely it wouldn't lose this functionality? I should still be able to read it in the kitchen, even if I don't get detailed tariff data?
    The WAN and HAN lights are flashing steadily, one amber, one green, whereas the power one is steady.

    First of all, is anyone aware of if the display should still work, and if it does, whose responsibility is it to fix? nPowers as they installed it?
    I tried talking to both, nPower have not yet replied, EDF - I only get through to basic level contacts and they just say it won't work at all having changed supplier, I am not sure I believe them though!

    Thanks in advance
  • MeterMan
    MeterMan Posts: 433 Forumite
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    vanginger wrote: »
    Hi
    Hoping someone here can help us out too. We got our Smart Meter with nPower in April and then switched to EDF just last month.
    I do realise that it may well lose it's connectivity with our provider having switched but it did seem to work for a few days, I am sure the tariff changed on-screen.
    However, the smartmeters outside suddenly stopped communicating with the display in the kitchen. Any time I try turn it on now, it just says connecting to smart meter. Now surely it wouldn't lose this functionality? I should still be able to read it in the kitchen, even if I don't get detailed tariff data?
    The WAN and HAN lights are flashing steadily, one amber, one green, whereas the power one is steady.

    First of all, is anyone aware of if the display should still work, and if it does, whose responsibility is it to fix? nPowers as they installed it?
    I tried talking to both, nPower have not yet replied, EDF - I only get through to basic level contacts and they just say it won't work at all having changed supplier, I am not sure I believe them though!

    Thanks in advance

    The displays may work after switching, but nothing is guaranteed. Your current supplier is responsible for your meters, even though Npower fitted them.

    It is a much publicised issue that smart meters revert to 'dumb' once you have changed supplier. When SMETS2 meters are being installed, SMETS1 meters will be made to communicate with DCC
  • JDC2017
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    LOL - I'm obviously making a complete hash of the explanation.

    Thanks to badmemory for summing it up nicely. :T

    The old gas meter and its earthing bond to a pipe was 'compliant'.

    The new gas meter and its earthing bond to a pipe is not 'compliant'.

    Eon Customer Servies are back at work today so I will be trying to have the work evaluated.
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