Ipa

Kerry511 · 21 January 2017 at 2:07PM

The guys on this forum would be able to give much better advice if they can see what SOA you gave the official receiver. It may well be calculations due to some being weekly and some monthly. As figures that are weekly do not add up the same if you were calculating them over 12 months etc as 4x12=48 but there is 52 weeks hence why weekly figures generate 13 months............ hope that makes sense!
Also for me they deducted kids holidays from school! So when I worked out my children's school meals on a weekly basis it was worked out over 39 weeks (the weeks they are at school) not 52 weeks for the year!
So pop up your SOA and we may be able to help with how they came up with that figure :-)

good luck x

FixitM · 23 January 2017 at 5:38PM

Hello. The official receiver also said that given the amount of debt that is being written off by the BR, £44 a month isn't much to ask. He said that they had allowed everything we'd claimed on the form, but also added in holiday fund, more for clothes, so no idea where this extra money has been magicked up from? Unless he sees that my husband started on a low amount and it has gone up and projected a higher future amount? But in that case, it won't have taken into account he got paid £0 for 2 weeks over Christmas and January was low again because it's been very quiet (they asked for 2 months income and said they'd do an average, and it was provided up to about mid November).

Anyway, here's the information asked for on their form and the figures we put.

Total Income = £2598.30

Mortgage = £600
Council Tax = £60
Heating and lighting= £198
Water = £53
Telephone, broadband & tv = £70
Housekeeping = £630
Essential travel expenses = £127.25
Clothing = £100
Maintenance payments = £0.00
Fines = £0.00
Other payments -
Tax = £260
NI = £12.13
Expenses = £241.06
Building & Contents Insurance = £15
School Meals = £40
School trips & swimming lessons = £30
TV licence = £10.50
Pet food = £40
Mobile phones = £31
Lunch whilst travelling (at work) = £70

Total outgoings = £2588.46.

If anyone could shed any light on where they have calculated the extra income from to arrive at the £44, considering they say they allowed for the amounts claimed, I'd be very grateful.

Thank you.

National_Debtline · 23 January 2017 at 7:10PM

Hello again,

It is still difficult to see the differences from what the OR has told you and what you submitted. Perhaps the income has been calculated differently on each budget. Kerry511 has already talked about converting weekly figures into calendar monthly and how that differs from a 4 weekly figure. So, if you receive £20.70 per week in child benefit that would be £89.70 per month (not £82.80 - as that is 4 weekly). Can you post details of what income you receive and how often it is paid to you as this may be the source of the problem?

Alternatively, they may have averaged your partners income and it has come out higher for some reason. Sorry we seem to be struggling to give you a concrete answer.

Laura
@natdebtline

debt_doctor · 23 January 2017 at 7:24PM

How many people are in the family, and ages of the children?
DD

FixitM · 23 January 2017 at 7:52PM

Hello. Thanks for your replies. I'll have to dig out his pay slips again for the weekly pay amounts. There are 5 of us, 2 adults and 3 children aged 9, 6 and 3.

Thank you.

Kerry511 · 24 January 2017 at 10:24AM

Hi

I think they have allowed generously if I am honest.

I mean £157.50 for food/house keeping for you, hubby and 3 kids is good :-)
With pet food separate at £10 per week
I have 2 adults and 5 kids and my food/housing keeping is £130.00 per week!
Also my clothing budget is £125 per month for 7 of us.

The allowance for telephone/broadband/tv is a lot more than what I would have thought they would allow! So very lucky they have allowed this. Mine was £31.50.
School trips/swimming lessons again very lucky this has been allowed. School trips is fine but swimming lessons could be seen as a luxury. I had £7 per month for my children's school trips. No extra activities apart from free local park! Lol

Anyhow with what I have said above it appears an IPA would have been sought anyhow had they had challenged some of your expenses :-(

Just to give a little comparison. My total income with hubbys wages and benefit top up is
£572.33 per week

£2480.10 per month (12 months) OR uses this figure but there is a diffence in amounts that I actually get below

£572.33 x 4 =£2289.32
Which is different to the monthly figure above (£2480.10) because in order to get a monthly figure for OR follow instructions below

Weekly income £572.33
X 52 = £29,761.20
Divide by 12 = £2480.10

There for you do not use you weekly income x4 to make your monthly income. You work it out as stated above to get the correct monthly figure. Due to there being 13 months pay if you just times your weekly by 4 (52 divided by 4 = 13)

You then do the same with all expenses

Also remember to work out children's school meals as follows
Get the weekly amount
Then times it by 39 (not 52) as only 39 school weeks!
Then divide it by 12 (so you put it away monthly) use when you need to for the weeks they are in school.

Hope all this is making sense :-(

With all 7 of us and an income of £572.33 per week and outgoings of £571.27
Surplus is £1.06 per week (no IPA) we also have no holiday fund, no activities for kids/adults and no emergency fund :-(
So I totally understand how frustrating and hard it is. But as long as you stick to your budgets and work them out correctly, then it should be ok.

I think once you have done all the above you may find that it all adds up and maybe even more left over than what you thought! Which might explain why you have been given an IPA.

But really your OR has allowed a lot of above average expenses (even though they may be considered essential to yourself) ............

I really hope you figure it out and it doesn't cause too much distress:-(

I am having a similar situation due to my youngests needs changing (autism) so totally understand how your feeling frustrated. It is all very confusing working out figures :-(

If you find it too difficult to work out if you pop up all income and outgoings weekly. I may be able to help

I wish you well and good luck!

FixitM · 24 January 2017 at 11:13AM

Thank you. We were told to put down the truth and be honest, which is exactly what we've done. Unfortunately we have 2 very fussy eaters, so I mainly have to make 2 (sometimes 3) separate meals. The cat food is slightly more than £10 a week, as she's a very old cat and can't chew very well, so can only manage a certain one. The phone, broadband & tv deal we had came to an end, so we do need to change to another provider or something to get that cost down, just it's in my husband's name and he currently works 13 hours a day so isn't getting the time to ring them. Swimming lessons, I thought were allowed, and didn't want to just stop them as they are a life saving skill & stopping will set them back. I'd seen others allowed those on here? I think I'd just like to understand where the discrepancy lies, as on the one hand he's saying he's allowed everything, but then saying he's taken it upon himself to add' extras' I wouldn't mind if we actually had the extras, but we don't. I just feel totally lost and we're going to have to submit a new one at the end of February, and as my husband will be getting more of a set amount, I expect our tax credits to reduce, but no idea what to. Suppose we just have to wait then? I've also hurt my back really badly, everyone is telling me to make an appointment to get chiro/ physio, but obviously I can't afford to. Had no sleep and just feeling really upset. Sorry, I know it's not really directly related, but when you're in agony and can do nothing about it, and then this is going on, it's just getting on top of me.

Thanks for your reply.

FixitM · 24 January 2017 at 11:50AM

Also, I'm due to be discharged on 18th February, but I'm assuming it makes no real difference to anything as my husband is still in his bankruptcy? Thanks.

Kerry511 · 24 January 2017 at 1:21PM

Hi again

Most certainly you are allowed the expenses you have put down. It is individual to each persons needs I believe.
I was just suggesting that he had taken into account and allowed those higher than average expenditures without asking you to reduce them or find cheaper alternatives (as he could have). As you have a genuine need for them, he has allowed them :-)
Before starting an IPA I would expect you to be allowed the £10 per person emergency fund as well, added onto your SOA and minus from any surplus that they propose you pay towards your IPA.

Honesty is always the better approach and everything will run more smoothly because of your honesty!

Did you check to see how you worked out the income/expenditure due to weekly, calendar month and 4weekly amounts?
As I do have a feeling this is what has cause you to have an IPA.

I really hope you feel some relief soon, it is never a nice feeling when struggling with health, children and finances :-(

When the time comes and hubbys income is more stable and your discharged, send them in a new SOA including any reduction in tax credits (when that happens) Then adjust your expenditure accordingly with changes that have naturally occurred to suit your new budget :-)
They will then adjust your IPA (assuming it is up and running if you accept it) to meet your new SOA.
I assume if you don't want to accept it then argue your case with the court. Taking the chance you may get an IPO. But please check to see if it is the way you have worked out the finances first (weekly/monthly/calendar monthly) before you decline or accept :-)
It may give you a better idea of how he has come up with his figures!
Also ask the OR how they have calculated it but I did read he wasn't be too much help at the time :-(
Stay strong we are all in this togeather and it will get easier once you know what's what.

I am no expert at this....... lol!
Just giving some advice according to my own experience and hopefully some support! As I myself is normally the one asking for advice :-)

Good luck xx

debt_doctor · 24 January 2017 at 8:38PM

Hi,

I think your expenses are reasonable and providing you have calculated your income correctly, when you add the allowances that you didn't claim for, no IPA should be sought.
The law requires reasonable needs to be met in bankruptcy not basic needs.
An IPA is absolutely not a 'trade off' against a level of bankruptcy debt, and the examiner made a ridiculous statement in doing so.

The bottom line is that this proposed IPA is all about getting the case management fee paid and not about the creditors. Examiners these days are put under pressure to get any small amount of money to pay for the insolvency service running costs - that is not the bankrupts responsibility, never has been and absolutely not the lawful purpose of an IPA.
DD

Ipa

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