Co-worker editing documents with "(s)he" to just "he" about generic people
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OK, that is not going to happen. Even if HR agree with you that using 'he' is sexist, at most they may say that the document is to be amended.
At its highest, on this specific issue he is guilty of nothing more than following old-fashioned rules of grammar.
The other issues are things which you can report to HR as and when they occur.
So far as the drafting point is concerned, you could raise it, but rather than say 'John is a sexist pig and he is deliberately doing this' your approach should be 'I noticed that the draft I produces had been amended to change (s)he to he. I realise that (s)he is clumsy and it's important that the document is clear and easy to read. I would like to suggest , moving forward, that we use 'they' rather than either 'he' or 'she' to avoid any perception of sexism or sexist attitudes - it can feel very exclusionary when documents use 'he', particularly in areas where women are already under represented. I think it it would be a small, but really cheap and simple way of following our equal opportunities policies' (I assume your company has equal opportunity policies)
(If you think that the grammar issue will be raised, you can add: 'I know that using 'they' as a singular used to be thought of as bad grammar but it is now recognised as correct but most authorities, including the OED')
That way, it doesn't come over as someone with a grudge raising trivial issues about another staff member, but more as a head-sup to management that there is something which does come across as sexist but which can be very, very easily addressed, so you assumed that they'd want to know.
Don't criticise or blame John at all, acknowledge that your original solution wasn't great and make it about having found a better alternative.
And if at some future point you hear John making sexist comments then report that at the time it happens
It's just so frustrating that he has a history of bigoted comments and behaviour like this, but nothing has been done about it, but at the same time he has got me and other co-workers in "hot water" with HR due to minor things that are now on our permanent records. I just don't see why he is immune to this (unless there is something "going on" between him and our manager, which I have considered, and there is a sort of flirting quality to it but I don't think it's anything substantial.)
As in.. I saw and heard him reviewing CVs and threw them in the bin because "we don't want someone from Kerblikistan* here cos they won't fit in" (*obviously just a placeholder) and I didn't say anything because actually I didn't know what I could say. Actually even apart from nationality, he threw all kinds of CVs in the bin because "not enough experience" or whatever, and who knows what happened to the personal information on those CVs? - they were submitted to a HR department or hiring manager, and for myself if submitting a CV with things like my date of birth and address on it, I wouldn't be too happy to hear it had just been thrown out with the general rubbish where any identity thief could get hold of it.0 -
As an example of things that can be brought up to managers and held against you: Our workplace is very strict about calls being made from the department phone (i.e. you can't do it) but one day "someone" made a personal call from the office phone (it wasn't me, it was another staff member and I know who it was but didn't tattle), the manager found out and was casting around to find out who it was, and John told her that I was in the office around that time (which I had gone in there a few minutes after, but for a legitimate reason about some piece of paperwork and not involving the phone) and let her believe that it was me who had made the call.
On other occasions we have had to work late to get a "teapot" order completed and he's told the boss that "she was here until 6.30pm" (when he went home to have his dinner but then didn't come back because of something or other with childcare - we finish at 6 normally) leaving out the fact that I actually stayed until 11pm and didn't go home for dinner , and getting me a reprimand from the boss about my habit of leaving before the job is done.
When I tried to argue about these things and give my side it was disregarded as basically "he is Senior so must be right" and I was threatened with formal disciplinary processess if I carried on being "difficult"
With an active disciplinary process you are not eligible for a pay rise (pay is already below market average I feel) and maybe more importantly, the company will not give a reference when you leave.0 -
And you work there because.....?0
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I think that you are getting very confused about what you are being told here, so I am going to make it as simple as possible.
The only opinion that matters is that of your employer. Right, wrong or indifferent is irrelevant. Your employer calls the shots. They have decided that John's services and skills are more valuable than those of others and they wish to retain them. They have decided that his opinions count more than yours. They don't find what he says objectionable. In other words, boiling this down, the employer is happy with your colleague. So your opinion is irrelevant. It is nothing. What you think about what people should think or do doesn't matter one iota.
If this is not acceptable to you... Tough. Get another job if this isn't how you wish to work. But the employer does not change for an employee. And no amount of ranting on a anonymous forum is going to change that.
And as for him being a tattle tale- you don't appear to be above that yourself, so that's the kettle calling the pot. You've just spent several pages listing all his faults and errors - in your opinion. If that isn't tattling.....?
So it's very simple. He is valued more than you. Nobody cares what your opinion of this is. If you don't like it, find another job. Any other option is one that will backfire on you. And you know this. And if everything got say about him is true, and even if that is all stuff that nobody likes, you are still coming across as just as bad - you are being petty and vindictive, based on your personal prejudices, which is exactly what you are accusing him of being.0 -
The "minor" offences you list which resulted in disciplinary action are all things which most workplaces would consider misconduct however! Being aggressive to a colleague, ignoring the dress code, making personal calls when these are expressly forbidden, capability.
You on the other hand are raising a subjective judgment issue and unless there is a company policy on the style of formal documents it doesn't meet that benchmark which is why I am saying your expectations are unrealistic.
If the company genuinely can't cope with staff leaving and John was only promoted to keep him, why don't you offer to resign and see if they offer you the same title? If you are confident that you are a better worker than him, that should resolve the issue once and for all. If you think however they'd be happy to let you go, then that tells you all you need to know.0 -
getmore4less wrote: »And you work there because.....?
That's a good question and there are 2 answers (I don't know which takes priority in my mind, really) 1. I am actively taking courses and studying things that could lead to a career in the "teapot" design industry elsewhere, so until I finish them I am just biding my time (don't want an unnecessary job-hopping arrangement on my CV), and 2. I feel like if I leave they will be a bit screwed, even if I'm not the most popular person I am by far the most productive and know the most about all the processes (yes, even more then Senior-John!) and so I would be leaving them in the whatsit if I were to leave. There are many times a day I'm asked how to deal with "such and such situation" as managers and colleagues have no idea.0 -
I think that you are getting very confused about what you are being told here, so I am going to make it as simple as possible.
The only opinion that matters is that of your employer. Right, wrong or indifferent is irrelevant. Your employer calls the shots. They have decided that John's services and skills are more valuable than those of others and they wish to retain them. They have decided that his opinions count more than yours. They don't find what he says objectionable. In other words, boiling this down, the employer is happy with your colleague. So your opinion is irrelevant. It is nothing. What you think about what people should think or do doesn't matter one iota.
If this is not acceptable to you... Tough. Get another job if this isn't how you wish to work. But the employer does not change for an employee. And no amount of ranting on a anonymous forum is going to change that.
And as for him being a tattle tale- you don't appear to be above that yourself, so that's the kettle calling the pot. You've just spent several pages listing all his faults and errors - in your opinion. If that isn't tattling.....?
So it's very simple. He is valued more than you. Nobody cares what your opinion of this is. If you don't like it, find another job. Any other option is one that will backfire on you. And you know this. And if everything got say about him is true, and even if that is all stuff that nobody likes, you are still coming across as just as bad - you are being petty and vindictive, based on your personal prejudices, which is exactly what you are accusing him of being.
@Sangie565 - Thank you for your honesty! It's what I needed to hear. Yes, I freely admit that I am resentful of Senior-John as it appears that his promotion has no substance at all, but the company is just desperate to keep "someone" who has some knowledge of how things work already, given our abysmal recruiting record in the last couple of years (employees lasted: 5 months, half a day (!), 2 months, 3 days, 7 months,... etc) in a role that needs to take in a lot of knowledge and processes, and would need 6 months at the very least to be sort of "up to speed". So he has some sort of idea of what goes on here already and wanted to leave, so they were falling over themselves to keep him -- in spite of the bigoted and borderline illegal views (which I'm not sure management know about, but how on earth could I bring that up?)
But even so -- his "Senior" position has actually never been communicated to us, the first any of us knew about it was the appearance of "Senior Teapot Analyst" rather than "Teapot Analyst" in an email signature, and as I said, his sudden (from my POV) asking us "whats the status of the XYZ project" with no reason to be asking that. So I just replied with something like "oh, you know, it's getting there but you know how difficult project managers can be! haha" and he reported that to our mutual manager as my being "awkward".0 -
PossiblyOverworked wrote: »I am by far the most productive and know the most about all the processes (yes, even more then Senior-John!) and so I would be leaving them in the whatsit if I were to leave.
What a delightful situation to be in! If I were you I'd exploit it, whether you stay or go, since you obviously don't enjoy it there.
Elswhere on these boards someone came up with the concept of saving money in order to have a " F**k O** Fund", so I suggest you take steps to avail yourself of one. The stronger the situation you can put yourself in the better the outcome for you.0 -
PossiblyOverworked wrote: »@Sangie565 - Thank you for your honesty! It's what I needed to hear. Yes, I freely admit that I am resentful of Senior-John as it appears that his promotion has no substance at all, but the company is just desperate to keep "someone" who has some knowledge of how things work already, given our abysmal recruiting record in the last couple of years (employees lasted: 5 months, half a day (!), 2 months, 3 days, 7 months,... etc) in a role that needs to take in a lot of knowledge and processes, and would need 6 months at the very least to be sort of "up to speed". So he has some sort of idea of what goes on here already and wanted to leave, so they were falling over themselves to keep him -- in spite of the bigoted and borderline illegal views (which I'm not sure management know about, but how on earth could I bring that up?)
But even so -- his "Senior" position has actually never been communicated to us, the first any of us knew about it was the appearance of "Senior Teapot Analyst" rather than "Teapot Analyst" in an email signature, and as I said, his sudden (from my POV) asking us "whats the status of the XYZ project" with no reason to be asking that. So I just replied with something like "oh, you know, it's getting there but you know how difficult project managers can be! haha" and he reported that to our mutual manager as my being "awkward".
Yes the problem is obviously with him.0 -
The "minor" offences you list which resulted in disciplinary action are all things which most workplaces would consider misconduct however! Being aggressive to a colleague, ignoring the dress code, making personal calls when these are expressly forbidden, capability.
You on the other hand are raising a subjective judgment issue and unless there is a company policy on the style of formal documents it doesn't meet that benchmark which is why I am saying your expectations are unrealistic.
If the company genuinely can't cope with staff leaving and John was only promoted to keep him, why don't you offer to resign and see if they offer you the same title? If you are confident that you are a better worker than him, that should resolve the issue once and for all. If you think however they'd be happy to let you go, then that tells you all you need to know.
OK, then I don't know how I should reply to these people. We are an "ISO" (EU standards with documentation requirements, for anyone not in the know) accredited org and it has "How-To" documents about every conceivable subject. "How to" shape a Teapot Spout (of course in language like "the Teapot Spout Manufacturer will do XYZ and if (s)he encounters an unusual ABC reading then" etc) so that it can pour tea effectively, or whatever... - each process covered by a document. So a colleague asked how to shape a teapot spout as she hadn't done this before, and I referred her to the "Teapot Spout Shaping" ISO document 2.0.4.3.5 (or whatever) and then ask if there are any questions. But she just cried to Senior-John that I was being unhelpful and he got me yet another warning for not sharing knowledge (which was all in the doc) and being patronising.0
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