Lost parking ticket by private firm

rjsdcssch88 · 5 October 2016 at 12:13AM

I went with my mate to see a friend who has recently been staying in Manchester on the 3/10/16 around 10pm. The driver was driving a hire car at the time and parked the car on the street outside the apartment. On our return we got in the car and drove off not noticing that a parking ticket had been stuck on the windscreen. As it was very late night and dark, the ticket wasn't noticeable. We only realised when it flew off. We knew it was some kind of ticket as it was glued onto the windscreen but not strong enough.

We went back to the street and realised after some careful looking around a small sign saying that parking isn't allowed on this street. Not only that, the writing on the sign is tiny and the sign itself is impossible to spot. Also there were other cars on the street that were parked there from the apartments but they didn't receive tickets.
Photos have been taken of all this as evidence.

The parking company is UK Parking Patrol Office and it is part of the IPC.

My question is that since the ticket has been lost, what is the best way to find out if it was a ticket issued. Should the parking company be contacted and if so in writing? My concern is that if it's in writing then 14 days may pass and the fine will be 100 quid. Also should the car registration be given to them when dealing with them. They have an email address, phone number and online form on their site. Which do you suggest is the best way to contact them?

Thanks
Ray

Coupon-mad · 5 October 2016 at 12:23AM

I would probably not contact them - first, I would contact the Hire firm and warn them what happened and tell them that you (as hirer) DO NOT AUTHORISE any private (scam) PCN to be paid. It WILL NOT be covered by the hire t&cs about real penalties (this is not one). Insist they follow the BVRLA process to discharge any liability when they get a letter - about a month or so after the event - which means they supply the hirer's name and address.

Then the hirer appeals when they get their own PCN. The PCN will NOT be cancelled but at least the hire firm are out of the equation and no idiot will pay it like a numpty!

Do not phone UKPPO unless you try something very sneaky...how about the PASSENGER phones up (an assertive person, not a pushover friend!) and recounts what happened, without saying whether they were hirer/driver/keeper, just say 'we' were in the car and 'we' saw the PCN fly off...

Ask for the PCN number because you were 'planning on paying it' and wondered if there was any discount...?! Get that PCN number, and if they say they can take the payment over the phone suddenly feign a lost credit card. DO NOT be talked into paying.

rjsdcssch88 · 5 October 2016 at 9:12AM

Thanks for your reply. I contacted the hire firm just now. They have told me that they will pay the fine if the parking firm gets in touch and then bill me with the new amount inc their administration fee. I will then need to appeal to the parking firm to get my money back. I've told them that I can't appeal then because the parking firm already has the payment.

They insist that this is the way it works.

I am thinking of ringing the parking firm and asking for ticket or something.

Any ideas?

Thanks

DollyDee_2 · 5 October 2016 at 9:26AM

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I would probably not contact them - first, I would contact the Hire firm and warn them what happened and tell them that you (as hirer) DO NOT AUTHORISE any private (scam) PCN to be paid. It WILL NOT be covered by the hire t&cs about real penalties (this is not one). Insist they follow the BVRLA process to discharge any liability when they get a letter - about a month or so after the event - which means they supply the hirer's name and address.

Then the hirer appeals when they get their own PCN. The PCN will NOT be cancelled but at least the hire firm are out of the equation and no idiot will pay it like a numpty!

Do not phone UKPPO unless you try something very sneaky...how about the PASSENGER phones up (an assertive person, not a pushover friend!) and recounts what happened, without saying whether they were hirer/driver/keeper, just say 'we' were in the car and 'we' saw the PCN fly off...

Ask for the PCN number because you were 'planning on paying it' and wondered if there was any discount...?! Get that PCN number, and if they say they can take the payment over the phone suddenly feign a lost credit card. DO NOT be talked into paying.

Re-read Coupon-Mad's first paragraph above.

What the Hire Firm has said is incorrect. It does not work this way. They have to follow the BVRLA process. Ring them again and send a confirmation email instructing them NOT TO PAY THE PCN under any circumstances! It is a speculative invoice, it is NOT A FINE OR PENALTY. Tell them they can pass on your details only. Do not let them pay the PCN. The admin fee they charge you could be up to half the amount of the PCN.

Do it now.

Coupon-mad · 5 October 2016 at 1:46PM

We've told you to insist on the BVRLA (Google them) procedure. They MUST name you as hirer, not pay the thing.

Ralph-y · 5 October 2016 at 2:34PM

follow the above advice ......

its easier to sort this now that after they have paid it!

have a read of this thread to see ....

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5515157

Good luck

Ralph:cool:

rjsdcssch88 · 5 October 2016 at 9:38PM

Cheers for all your replies. I have sneakly contacted the company that issued that ticket and have received the PCN without mentioning who was driving the car, etc and will now appeal.

In addition to this, I will contact Hertz, the rental company to deal with this too, in that they don't pay the fine but only pass on the details.

Thanks for all your replies and will let you know how I get on.

Coupon-mad · 5 October 2016 at 10:39PM

Good work! Only appeal as hirer/lessee, NOT DRIVER!! Now you have the PCN you can indeed appeal.

You do also need to warn the Hire company off though, in writing (NOT by phone) telling them you WILL NOT be liable if they stupidly pay this if they should get a letter later on. Tell them that they are not liable and merely need to name you as hirer, with your address too, then they are out of the equation. Do not believe any rubbish about the 't&cs say we can pay these fines'. No they don't. This is not a fine.

rjsdcssch88 · 5 October 2016 at 11:39PM

Cheers Coupon Mad and everyone else for your helpful replies.

I would be very grateful if someone can double check my appeal letter below that I'd like to send to UK PPO via their website. I haven't named the driver only mention the keeper (or hirer).

[FONT=&quot]Wednesday 5th October 2016[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. XXX

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I will not be paying your demand for payment because the street in question where the alleged contravention occurred has no clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are. Furthermore, no signage is visible when it’s dark. This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued illegally. Please see attached photographic evidence I have gathered as proof that shows how poor the street signage is and how difficult it is to see the signs. Furthermore, the photographic evidence shows there are no double yellow lines which indicates that parking is allowed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Further, I understand you do not own the [FONT=&quot]street[/FONT] and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the [FONT=&quot]keeper [/FONT]may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,[/FONT]

___
Do I need to also provide my name and address on top this appeal reply? During the week when I work away from home, I stay in a rented flat, would it be advisable to use this as my address as this is different to the address that the hire car company has and also different to the address on my drivers licence?

Thanks again in advance for your replies.

rjsdcssch88 · 6 October 2016 at 12:39PM

I will put my name and my flat address where I stay during the week on the correspondence when I appeal online.

I will let you know how I get on.

Cheers

Guys_Dad · 6 October 2016 at 7:00PM

rjsdcssch88 wrote: »

In addition to this, I will contact Hertz, the rental company to deal with this too, in that they don't pay the fine but only pass on the details.

Thanks for all your replies and will let you know how I get on.

Will you stop using the word "FINE". Hire companies will pay genuine fines and charge your card as these are bona fide authorised charges and your t&c with them permits them to do this.

Speculative invoices from private parking companies are not fines and are NOT covered in your Hire t&c. If you refer to these as FINES, then that doesn't help your case with Hertz.

Lost parking ticket by private firm

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