Amazon Marketplace Refunds

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Mysearch
Mysearch Posts: 6 Forumite
edited 16 September 2017 at 8:28AM in Consumer rights
Hi,
I bought a product through Amazon without too much consideration of the seller. After about 6 days, Amazon emailed me to tell me that the product had not been dispatched and that my credit card had not been charged.

As such, I thought the easiest route was simply to cancel the order via the Amazon website, which was allowed because the order had not been dispatched. While the website appeared to accept the request for the cancellation, I have subsequently discovered that in the context of Amazon’s marketplace orders, this is only forwarded as a request to the seller, who some 6 hours later simply ignored the request stating that the product had now been dispatched and could not be changed.

To be honest, I was suspicious as to whether anything had been dispatched as there was no delivery tracking information. While the seller has agreed to a refund, it is conditional on the product being returned at my cost.

As it turns out, the seller company is wholly own by Amazon, but any emails to Amazon asking for help with the refund is simply dismissed on the basis that Amazon do not mediate in marketplace disputes.

Without going into all the details, the Consumer Rights Act (CRA) makes reference to the "Failure to deliver within a reasonable time and outside of the agreed deadline is considered to be a breach of contract”. I also thought the CRA put the delivery responsibility on the seller not the buyer. From my perspective, the revised delivery date given, for which there is no tracking information or proof of dispatch, amounted to a breach of contract on which the order was based.

There was also a potential issue under Consumer Protection within the Unfair Trading Regulations, as the seller advertised the product as in-stock, even although they have admitted that they were ordering the product from another 3rd party supplier. If this product is never delivered, can I still demand a refund.

Would appreciate any advice on how to proceed, I have already filed an A-Z claim. Thanks
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  • theonlywayisup
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    You say you bought from Amazon and infer it is a Marketplace seller, yet you then say the "seller company is wholly own (sic) by Amazon". Which is it? Amazon or a Marketplace seller?

    Has the item been delivered? If not, what is the delivery estimate on your Amazon order?

    You have filed an A-Z (the last possible resort on Amazon) - what is the status?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,752 Forumite
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    Hi Mysearch, welcome to the forums.

    If you want help, can I respectfully suggest that you edit your post to make it readable.

    E.g. break it up into paragraphs.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 26,612 Forumite
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    edited 16 September 2017 at 1:29AM
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    Mysearch wrote: »
    Would appreciate any advice on how to proceed, I have already filed an A-Z claim. Thanks
    That's all you can do at the moment. Wait to see the outcome of that

    You do contradict yourself by stating it was an Amazon Marketplace Seller and then later saying the seller was "wholly own by Amazon". Where did you get this information?

    You also don't make it clear whether you are now in possession of the item, but it does seem like you are loathe to return it at your own cost.

    Incidentally, it is not illegal to state the item is "in stock" as long as that information is not deliberately false. If they referenced their supplier was "in stock" then that would not be deemed deliberately misleading.


    Note also that stock databases are not infallible and you have to accept that mistakes are sometimes made.
  • Mysearch
    Mysearch Posts: 6 Forumite
    edited 16 September 2017 at 10:27AM
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    First some apologizes in response to the comments on post #2, 3 & 4.

    Post 3: I will attempt to break up my comments into more manageable issues. Sorry - i have edited post 1 in any attempt to make it more readable without changing the content.

    Posts 2 & 4: While the company trades as a 3rd party seller in Amazon’s marketplace, I discovered that it was purchased by Amazon in 2011 by a search for information about the seller via Google. However, this is really a side issue as Amazon considers it a 3rd party seller.

    Post 2: The end-date delivery was originally 14 Sept. The seller then revised this date on 12 Sept to the 18 Sep after I thought I had cancelled the order. With regard to the A-Z claim, Amazon have replied that the claim will be addressed by 29 Sep.

    Post 4: Thanks for your insights. To be honest, I do not expect to change either Amazon’s or the seller’s position in this matter, but simply wanted to better understand, what if any, consumer rights I have when ordering products online in the future.

    So, by way of general clarification:

    1) I was trying to better understand consumer rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, which makes reference to the "Failure to deliver within a reasonable time and outside of the agreed deadline is considered to be a breach of contract”. From my perspective, the revised delivery date of 18 Sept appeared to breach my original contract, which was compounded by the fact that there was no tracking information or proof of dispatch.

    2) Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 appears to state that “if estimated demand exceeds supply, marketing communications must make clear that stock is limited”. The Amazon website indicated that there was 1 in-stock. However, it also states “Marketers must monitor stocks. If a product becomes unavailable, marketers must, whenever possible, withdraw or amend marketing communications that feature that product.” In this respect, it appeared that either Amazon or the seller failed to comply with this requirement as I believe the seller knew it would have to order the product from a foreign company based in Germany, hence the delay in dispatch. However, I have noted post 4's comments on this aspect.

    3) Much of my annoyance with this process was due to the fact that I had assumed that I was entitled to cancel the product prior to dispatch as the Amazon website allowed me to do this. I did not really understand that the T&C’s of Amazon’s marketplace only forwards the cancellation request to the seller, who then appears to have simply ignored the request and changed the status to 'dispatched' later in the day, i.e. 6 hours later, without replying to my request to cancel the order.

    4) Finally, I was concerned that I had no proof, by way of tracking information, to know whether the product had actually been dispatched. This concern was based on the fact that the seller predicated any refund on the return of the product to them at my expense, which was another annoyance given that I had thought I had cancelled the order before they had dispatched it.

    Sorry for the length and number of issues, but as indicated, I am simply trying to educate myself on these issues when making online purchases in future. Thanks
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 26,612 Forumite
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    edited 16 September 2017 at 10:32AM
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    To avoid the problems you have encountered, I'd just avoid using third party sellers on Amazon in future if I were you.

    I also wouldn't be too worried about being able to quote chapter and verse of the Consumer Rights Act with regard "late" delivery. You will have been given an "estimated" delivery date, not one cast in stone.

    Neither is cancellation guaranteed in the circumstances you describe, but Distance Selling means you are entitled to a full refund if you decide to return it.

    I doubt very much that the seller "ignored" your cancellation request and doubt even more that they deliberately changed your delivery status to "despatched" in order to prevent any such cancellation.

    Have you actually received the item?
  • Mysearch
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    Thanks for the response. While I do not disagree with any of the advice given, I would from a learning perspective like to raise a few comments
    I also wouldn't be too worried about being able to quote chapter and verse of the Consumer Rights Act with regard "late" delivery. You will have been given an "estimated" delivery date, not one cast in stone.

    If the Consumer Rights Act does not effectively define an ‘agreed deadline’ such that a ‘breach of contract’ has any meaning in terms of delivery date range, does it mean that a seller could simply extend the delivery date for whatever reason, e.g. the in-stock claim was false and therefore allows them more time to order in the product. In part, this was why I was interested to learn whether the in-stock claim was a form of false advertising.
    Neither is cancellation guaranteed in the circumstances you describe, but Distance Selling means you are entitled to a full refund if you decide to return it.

    I agree, it was my ignorance of the Amazon T&C’s in respect to their marketplace sellers that led me to the assumption that if the Amazon website allowed me to seemingly cancel the order before dispatch, this request would be honoured. I was also somewhat taken aback by the fact that while the Consumer Rights Act places the responsibility on the seller to deliver the product, the refund then required the buyer to return the product at their cost. However, is this last issue defined by the seller’s T&Cs?
    I doubt very much that the seller "ignored" your cancellation request and doubt even more that they deliberately changed your delivery status to "despatched" in order to prevent any such cancellation.

    I hope not. However, I suspect that most buyers operating through the Amazon marketplace know very little about the seller, such that it can appear suspicious when a request for cancellation is ignored and the seller claims the product to have been dispatched some 6 hours after the cancellation request. Does a seller have anything to lose if the refund is predicated on the buyer returning the product at their cost? I was also worried by the absence of any delivery tracking information to ensure the product was in transit, such that I could be reasonably sure that the product would arrive so that it could be returned in order to get the refund. Again, if the product was lost in transit, would the buyer have to prove this fact?

    Again, many thanks for the feedback.
  • timbstoke
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    Mysearch wrote: »
    If the Consumer Rights Act does not effectively define an ‘agreed deadline’ such that a ‘breach of contract’ has any meaning in terms of delivery date range, does it mean that a seller could simply extend the delivery date for whatever reason, e.g. the in-stock claim was false and therefore allows them more time to order in the product. In part, this was why I was interested to learn whether the in-stock claim was a form of false advertising.

    If delivery time isn't an integral part of the contract, then basically yes. If you'd ordered it for Next Day Delivery, or told the seller that time was of the essence and you needed delivery by a certain date, then the delivery element becomes part of the contract. Otherwise, they're simply promising to supply the goods to you in a reasonable time.

    Of course, now the item has supposedly been dispatched, you should have it within a couple of days. If you have the option to refuse delivery, that should result in it being returned to the seller at no cost to you
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,752 Forumite
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    Just to add two points:

    From Regulation 42 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013:
    (3) Unless there is an agreed time or period, the contract is to be treated as including a term that the trader must deliver the goods—

    (a) without undue delay, and
    (b) in any event, not more than 30 days after the day on which the contract is entered into.


    The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 have been consolidated into Part 2 of The Consumer Rights Act 2015.
  • Mysearch
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    Again, thanks for feedback in posts 8 & 9.
    timbstoke wrote: »
    If delivery time isn't an integral part of the contract, then basically yes. If you'd ordered it for Next Day Delivery, or told the seller that time was of the essence and you needed delivery by a certain date, then the delivery element becomes part of the contract. Otherwise, they're simply promising to supply the goods to you in a reasonable time. Of course, now the item has supposedly been dispatched, you should have it within a couple of days. If you have the option to refuse delivery, that should result in it being returned to the seller at no cost to you

    In practice, the Amazon marketplace seller can presumably control the delivery service on offer, i.e. basic delivery with no tracking. Likewise, if the product is delivered to a neighbour or simply thrown over the fence, it has been known, then once in receipt of the product, I assume the buyer is then stuck with the problem of returning the product at their cost, probably requiring a registered post, if a refund is predicated on the return.
    KeithP wrote: »
    Just to add two points:
    Regulation 42 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

    (3) Unless there is an agreed time or period, the contract is to be treated as including a term that the trader must deliver the goods—
    (a) without undue delay, and
    (b) in any event, not more than 30 days after the day on which the contract is entered into.

    The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 have been consolidated into [Part 2 of The Consumer Rights Act 2015.

    Thanks this is really useful information to understand. While I am assuming that the 30 day limit is the default, as "undue delay" sounds a bit vague, is there not also a 30 day limit on the return of defective goods – are these synchronised?
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863 Forumite
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    KeithP wrote: »
    Just to add two points:

    From Regulation 42 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013:



    The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 have been consolidated into Part 2 of The Consumer Rights Act 2015.

    I think you're getting confused. The CPRs werent consolidated into the CRA, that was the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations & the Unfair Contract Terms Act (although the latter still exists for b2b like SoGA).


    However the phrase OP quoted does not come from the CPRs (although those types of practices would be covered under the CPRs), it comes from guidelines ASA use when determining whether marketing communications are misleading. I'm not sure I'd class a product page on a website as marketing communications though.
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
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