Everyone being made redundant but want us to stay

melanieK80 · 28 April 2016 at 4:11PM

Good morning,
I/we are looking for a bit of quick advice regarding our situation. I will try to give a short explanation.

Everyone in this ltd company has been put on notice as there has been no significant growth or contracts awarded. They are also in the process of selling us.
We have also been told not to worry, at the end of the notice period the company will look to retain some of the key workers.

We just have a few questions;
1. Are they allowed to put us all on notice then make selections without discussion?
2. If we get a job elsewhere can they decide to not pay us redundancy if we were the ones they were hoping to retain (offer our jobs back)?

They seem confident we wont leave and that we will all work until the end of our notices without finding employment.

We just want to be on our guard. We are all in various unions as we had issues previously. What are they up to?

duchy · 28 April 2016 at 4:16PM

Well if you are all in unions....what do the unions say ? This is what you pay subs for and they will have a far greater understanding of the specific situation than anyone with the short version on a forum.

makemesumdosh · 28 April 2016 at 4:52PM

i agree, you pay your subs so get your staffside rep to get the regional officer to come in and chat with your. Get them round the table with someone from management and H.R. Get things documented and get a paper trail. If they then backtrack on things the rep or regional officer will take things further.

read up on employment law and your rights, all union reps should have a law book.

melanieK80 · 28 April 2016 at 5:10PM

We are all in different unions. I thought it might be easy just to ask on here for advice.

Thank you

makemesumdosh · 28 April 2016 at 5:39PM

My workplace has more than 1 union so when we had an issue which affected all of us the union with the most members affected acted on behalf of all employees and fed back to the other union.

do your reps not have monthly meetings ?

melanieK80 · 29 April 2016 at 9:44AM

Thank you everyone.

We are only a small company owned by a plc. a few years ago we went from 20+ staff to 7. Our union reps don't meet together. We all joined when we were put on indefinite short time, which they had to drop in the end.

We have just been told that we will all work our notices but beyond that we continue to work as normal, it just means the company don't have to pay us notice if they decide to shut down.

I will ring my rep later when I can get out of ear shot. Our redundancy notices don't even state how much redundancy we will get either, which everyone is concerned about.

I will post an update once I speak with the rep. We are hoping once we have served our notice we are then out of contract so we too can just walk when we want?? Not sure if that is how it works.

sangie595 · 29 April 2016 at 12:50PM

melanieK80 wrote: »

We are hoping once we have served our notice we are then out of contract so we too can just walk when we want?? Not sure if that is how it works.

Sort of but no! Contracts don't work like that. The employer can put you on notice and then vary the end date - as this employer is doing. That doesn't mean you aren't contracted to work! If you wish to leave you must serve counter notice, and assuming your employer agrees to this then you get to leave on a mutually agreed date with your redundancy pay intact. However if the employer doesn't agree then you can leave but the employer can refuse to pay redundancy, and you would have to go to a tribunal to determine this. In actual fact the employer would almost certainly lose in such circumstances, so if they are aware of this they may not bother arguing about it.

At this moment in time your redundancy payments could increase - you may pass another year during this time - so the employer can't really tell you what you will get.

One thing you need to be careful about is the fact that the company is being sold. Or are they just hoping to sell it? If this is the case TUPE comes into play, and you should not be made redundant because of a TUPE - that would be unfair dismissal. It's a complex area, and no need to go into detail right now because everything will depend on what happens. But both companies would then have a legal liability to ensure that any redundancy process was fair, and that if there is one, that both companies relevant staff are involved in that process.

melanieK80 · 29 April 2016 at 1:11PM

Thank you for that.

So if our notice period ends and we are required to continue working, the company can effectively shut down without warning and pay us our redundancy?

So it would not be beneficial to seek alternative employment to commence the day after our leave day? Otherwise they could refuse to pay redundancy on the grounds that there is still a job?

I am aware that 2 of us will not be asked to continue working after but I am not allowed to tell them as they do not want them to up and leave as their notice is only 1 week (2 month shy of their 2 years employment). This to me feels like constructive dismissal for them?

I haven't had chance to contact my rep yet as I am at work. Last time we contact our unions we were accused of being militants!

getmore4less · 29 April 2016 at 2:47PM

AIUI they can only change the notice end date by mutual agreement.

They can withdraw the redundancy at any time.

getmore4less · 29 April 2016 at 2:51PM

TUPE may not apply if the company is separate entity and sold as a share buyout as there is no change in employer.

sangie595 · 29 April 2016 at 3:52PM

getmore4less wrote: »

AIUI they can only change the notice end date by mutual agreement..

Quite true - if you walk the minute the notice is up. Stay and you have agreed the terms, unless you negotiate other terms first. As I know you are aware, this does not require consent - continuing to work knowing the terms constitutes consent to them. And as a result counter-notice would still be the appropriate notice to serve, because counter-notice preserves the redundancy payment, whilst simply handing in your notice does not.

You are correct about TUPE, but if anyone is hoping for share investors to buy up a company that has no growth and has been awarded no contracts... that wouldn't be a normal style for the buying up of shares. So unless the OP says otherwise I am taking them at their word on what is happening, and the company is being sold/ on sale.

Everyone being made redundant but want us to stay

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