lloyds tsb and scottish widows ppi claim

tumulus · 14 May 2011 at 2:57PM

Hi

Through my Lloyds TSB business account I took out a few loans in the last 10 years and paid for PPI for most of them even though I was self employed and not given any choice not to take them. All of the loans were eventually paid off early but I'm having difficulty tallying four PPI repayments received at seemingly random times after loans were paid off. I need to know whether it matters that I can exactly tally each PPI repayment Lloyds made to match each loan (its hard to do since some appear to have been made 2 years after a loan was paid off).

At the time I just trusted that the bank knew what it was doing and that all was being done in the right way. However, now that I'm aware of the PPI scandal I've looked into it and need a bit of advice.

Here are the broad details of the 6 loans I took and the PPI I think I'm owed:

LOAN 1 - Jan 2001, £10k + £775 PPI at 9.12% over 5 years - paid off after 26 payments. PPI to reclaim £2067

LOAN 2 - Jan 2002, £10k + £1574 PPI at 9.12% over 7 years - paid off after 14 payments. PPI to reclaim £3658

LOAN 3 - Jan 2004, £10k + £775 PPI at 8.5% over 5 years - paid off after 7 payments. PPI to reclaim £1465

LOAN 4 - Aug 2004, £35.5k (8.75%, 10 yrs, paid off within 2 years) + ongoing Scottish Widows policy (still in place!) of £27 per month. PPI to reclaim from Scottish Widows (part of Lloyds) £2892

LOAN 5 - Feb 2005, £15k + £1092 PPI at 10% over 4 yrs - paid off after 16 mths. PPI to reclaim £2025

LOAN 6 - Feb 2006, £15k + £3134 PPI at 8.75% over 10 yrs - paid off after 4 mths. PPI to reclaim £5307

Total PPI claims (incl Scottish Widows) = £17414

However, Lloyds paid back on 4 instances (with no reference to which loan they related to but labelled insurance repayment):

April 2005 £342
April 2005 £1282
July 2006 £634
July 2006 £2925

Does anybody think that these 4 repayments, however they have worked them out at the time, will absolve Lloyds from their responsibility to settle up the outstanding amounts I've worked out as owed according to their mis-selling of PPIs?

The way I'm treating it is to make a running total of what they owe me, including all the relevant interest, and to take from that amount these four payments (also including the compund interest). Which leaves just under £10k owed to me in all.

Is this the right way to proceed or must we find out exactly what their workings were etc?

Also, does anyone have any experience dealing with Scottish Widows PPI reclaims? I'm still going to keep paying the current PPI until they pay up since I have an overdraft which I feel Lloyds might immediately revoke if I remove this cover without confirmation that the money will be forthcoming.

I appreciate any help or advice you can give.

di3004 · 14 May 2011 at 5:56PM

Hi and welcome

I am not certain on the Scottish Widows case, but sure someone will know and post up soon, good luck there.

In regards of the loan ppi's, they should refund if successful all what you have paid plus interest, I am not the one for calculations but sure someone will check them over for you.

There are details on this site here on how to reclaim...
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/ppi-loan-insurance

Or directly on Lloyds website.

Complete the reclaim questionnaires, if mis sold for the same reasons, one questionnaire would be sufficient, remember to enclose all loan account numbers that apply, but if all for different reasons complete separately, and keep copies of them all.
Allow 8 weeks for a decision.
The details and the address are enclosed on loyds site.
http://www.lloydstsb.com/payment_protection_insurance_complaints.asp

Good luck.

tumulus · 14 May 2011 at 9:38PM

Many thanks for your welcome and advice Di3004

Much appreciated

I think I was told to take the Scottish Widows policy since Lloyds had just purchased them but the process was similar tother PPIs in that they didnt even ask me my employment status (self employed) and I was told that I had to take the policy or no loan.

If anyone else has a similar expereince with SW I'd be grateful for further advice.

roonaldo · 14 May 2011 at 11:33PM

tumulus wrote: »

I think I was told to take the Scottish Widows policy since Lloyds had just purchased them but the process was similar tother PPIs in that they didnt even ask me my employment status (self employed) and I was told that I had to take the policy or no loan.

Scottish widows (corrected, ta magpiecottage) dont do PPI, its probably a PHI (permanent health insurance) or critical illness policy, therefore they would be right not to ask about employment status as its irelevant (as doesnt provide unemployment cover). being self employed is probably more of a reason to take it as you would have had no sick pay.

Do you have any evidence you were told to have it?

magpiecottage · 15 May 2011 at 3:39PM

roonaldo wrote: »

Scottish provident dont do PPI, its probably a PHI (permanent health insurance) or critical illness policy, therefore they would be right not to ask about employment status as its irelevant (as doesnt provide unemployment cover). being self employed is probably more of a reason to take it as you would have had no sick pay.

For Scottish Provident, read Scottish Widows.

Lloyds TSB would have offered its products but that does not make it a missale any more than it is a missale for Waitrose to charge more than Sainsburys for a loaf.

dunstonh · 16 May 2011 at 9:47AM

Having the product is not a mis-sale. It is how it was sold and set up.

Lloyds retail Scottish Widows product under an advice process. They do a factfind, needs analysis and suitability report. SW dont have a PPI product and as mentioned it is more likely PHI. PHI is more ideally suited to the self employed individual and all financial advisers and accountants would tell you that PHI is something you should have (FOS would consider if you had a need for it and the answer for self employed is yes you did unless you had sufficient savings and investments to cover x number of years without income).

tumulus · 16 May 2011 at 2:38PM

Many thanks for the replies.

I've just found out that the Scottish Widows policy was in fact a Life Assurance policy although I still remember being given no choice but to take it up. However, its definitely not a PPI.

With regard to the 4 PPI rebates I got (a seeming random times, two of which arrived two years after loans had been paid off, and with no immediate connection to what policy they were for etc), do I have the right idea by adding compound interest to these figures from the dates they were received and taking them off the total owed amount?

Has anyone else done this?

dunstonh · 16 May 2011 at 3:28PM

I've just found out that the Scottish Widows policy was in fact a Life Assurance policy although I still remember being given no choice but to take it up. However, its definitely not a PPI.

Thats more like it. It also explains why you were told it was compulsory.

Banks frequently insist on life assurance as mandatory on business loans. They are allowed to do this as often the ability for them to recover their money is on the business person achieving their goals. If the business person dies, they often lack the security to get their money back.

This would not be a mis-sale as mandatory insurance sales are allowed. The mis-sale occurs when you are told it is mandatory when it isnt.

src007 · 16 May 2011 at 5:36PM

tumulus wrote: »

With regard to the 4 PPI rebates I got (a seeming random times, two of which arrived two years after loans had been paid off, and with no immediate connection to what policy they were for etc), do I have the right idea by adding compound interest to these figures from the dates they were received and taking them off the total owed amount?

Usually, the rebates are used to lower the loan settlement figures when you settle the loans. It does seem strange that the rebates were provided later?

It you were sold the insurance upfront, with interest payable on top you have a strong claims and its worth putting in a complaint for each loan.

If successful you would be due back all the PPI payments made + interest paid on the policies + 8% simple interst (minus the rebates).

It's very hard to work out what you're due however the banks are recieving tens of thousands of these complaints and have systems in place to award accurate amounts.

If it was a business loan they won't have added the 'unemployment' element to the PPI and so being self-employed won't be a complaint point.

However being sold policies with unfair rebate terms when you're likely to settle early is a strong mis-selling point.

tumulus · 16 May 2011 at 8:41PM

great - thanks

I've been told by Lloyds today what loan each rebate figure corresponds to (it wasnt obvious after all that time).

Just checking with all you experts if my way of calculating the overall amounts owed is correct:

1. the PPI was always paid for upfront at the start of the loan
2. i'm assuming the monthly PPI is then the amount i've had to pay monthly over and above what I would have paid if it was just the loan without the PPI added?
3. i'm adding 8% simple interest to each monthly payment as well as the initial single premium payment
4. i'm then deducting from that total any rebate plus interest from the date it was received.

Three further questions:

If I find that there was no penalty for early payment (which I don't think there was), what do I do with the discrepancy between the settlement sum I paid and what it ought to have been if I didnt have to take the PPI in the first place? Sometimes this figure is more than the rebate I received a considerable time later.

There seems to be a big difference is calculating simple interest at 8% or using the compound interest calculator at egalegal.com using 8% - which one is correct?

This is all taking a lot of time when I should be doing other things - can I add £200 to each claim for the aggravation and time its costing me?

tumulus · 16 May 2011 at 10:35PM

Have just looked at the settlements figures for all the loans and compared what they would have been if I'd been given the option of just taking out the loan in each case without PPI attached. I've used an online loan/mortgage amortization calculator to work this out.

In each case the settlement figure was more than it should be and I have to speak to the bank tomorrow to establish whether there were early repayment charges (ERCs) for these loans. However, I'm sure that there weren't, and it looks to me like the figure alloted to our account as an Insurance rebate is (give or take a few quid) very like the difference between the overpayment required to settle and the figure it 'should' have been without the PPI in place.

This changes things quite a bit since it means that the rebate isn't really therefore a rebate at all, its just balances the overpayment for the settlement fee. If I follow the FOSs advice to look at the situation as though I'd been offered loans without PPI at all, and totting up the differences at each stage due to fact that I was given no option but to take the policy (no policy meant no loan), then its becoming clearer what the cost of all this nonsense has been to me over the years.

Its funny I trusted banks because they've looked after my money - everything they've told me I've taken as gospel. Never again.

lloyds tsb and scottish widows ppi claim

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