Settlement agreement - not accceptable

abrin2017 · 5 December 2017 at 7:09PM

I have a situation where I am being made redundant from work

I have now been offered a fifth settlement agreement and although progress has been made we are now going around in circles

I am disputing the holiday entitlement offered and more importantly the monetary offer for signing the agreement, giving up my rights.

Initially they offered £500 and have now increased that to £600 (salary 25k + 8k bonus. 23 years service)

From the start, the situation has been handled appallingly, the fact that they have offered more incentive to sign away my rights and that they will simply not make me redundant and allow me to retain my rights makes me think they are worried about any future action

My question is where / who would be the better option to approach to get this matter resolved - the union that I subscribe to or a solicitor ?

I want this resolved ASAP but I also want the best possible deal I can get

Any advice appreciated

sangie595 · 5 December 2017 at 7:41PM

abrin2017 wrote: »

I have a situation where I am being made redundant from work

I have now been offered a fifth settlement agreement and although progress has been made we are now going around in circles

I am disputing the holiday entitlement offered and more importantly the monetary offer for signing the agreement, giving up my rights.

Initially they offered £500 and have now increased that to £600 (salary 25k + 8k bonus. 23 years service)

From the start, the situation has been handled appallingly, the fact that they have offered more incentive to sign away my rights and that they will simply not make me redundant and allow me to retain my rights makes me think they are worried about any future action

My question is where / who would be the better option to approach to get this matter resolved - the union that I subscribe to or a solicitor ?

I want this resolved ASAP but I also want the best possible deal I can get

Any advice appreciated

Settlement agreements on redundancy are very commonplace these days - and there's nothing at all in the offer that suggests they have any ulterior purpose. You should go to your union. But the amount they are offering is piddling - which is exactly what I would expect for an employer who is satisfied that they have done nothing wrong but wants to ensure that they don't end up with a huge legal bill over a hopeless claim. Frankly, if they thought you had a case of anything, I'd have expected a better offer!

Whilst I appreciate you would like the best deal possible, remember there is another scenario - they can withdraw the entire offer, take their chances, and if you bring a case without cause, counter sue you for their legal cost. Which will cost a great deal more than £600.

There is never only one perspective....

Xbigman · 6 December 2017 at 2:51AM

Whilst I'm no expert an offer of a weeks wages to go quietly after 23 years is a joke.
How many are being made redundant? And out of how many? I'd be inclined to take my chances for that little extra on offer. Even if I was already selected for redundancy anyway I'd be thinking along the lines of stringing it out for as long as possible. Anything over a week and you're better off than their current offer.

Darren

gadgetmind · 6 December 2017 at 12:46PM

Read this -

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4395

Unless all of the conditions are met regards legal advice, the agreement isn't binding.

Your employer will usually pay for this advice.

sangie595 · 6 December 2017 at 9:48PM

gadgetmind wrote: »

Read this -

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4395

Unless all of the conditions are met regards legal advice, the agreement isn't binding.

Your employer will usually pay for this advice.

There is absolutely nothing in law that says the employer must though.

sangie595 · 6 December 2017 at 9:51PM

Xbigman wrote: »

Whilst I'm no expert an offer of a weeks wages to go quietly after 23 years is a joke.
How many are being made redundant? And out of how many? I'd be inclined to take my chances for that little extra on offer. Even if I was already selected for redundancy anyway I'd be thinking along the lines of stringing it out for as long as possible. Anything over a week and you're better off than their current offer.

Darren

After 23 years, what you are entitled to is the statutory redundancy payment. Nothing more, unless your contact says otherwise. Thinking that you are entitled to more is not an argument for thinking you might get more. Yes, by pushing back you might get more. You might also get less.

Xbigman · 7 December 2017 at 7:54AM

sangie595 wrote: »

After 23 years, what you are entitled to is the statutory redundancy payment. Nothing more, unless your contact says otherwise. Thinking that you are entitled to more is not an argument for thinking you might get more. Yes, by pushing back you might get more. You might also get less.

I did not imply otherwise. My point was that the extra offered was so small that agreeing to a settlement was pointless. The OP would be just as well off if they simply said they would think about it for a week and then said no.
Likewise if no formal redundancy process has been done then turning down an offer would trigger the formal process which will take more than a week too.
The bottom line is that one weeks extra pay to go with a settlement rather than be made redudant is pretty much a waste of tme.

Darren

sangie595 · 8 December 2017 at 5:29PM

Xbigman wrote: »

I did not imply otherwise. My point was that the extra offered was so small that agreeing to a settlement was pointless. The OP would be just as well off if they simply said they would think about it for a week and then said no.
Likewise if no formal redundancy process has been done then turning down an offer would trigger the formal process which will take more than a week too.
The bottom line is that one weeks extra pay to go with a settlement rather than be made redudant is pretty much a waste of tme.

Darren

personally I would agree. But I have the luxury of not needing a weeks money. Not everyone is in the same position, so they need to consider that the employers stance may be that they've done it all right but it's worth a weeks money to not have problems - but it isn't worth more, and they're happy to not pay it. Same coin. Two sides.

getmore4less · 8 December 2017 at 5:42PM

One issue with settlement agreement is it protects the employer during the 3month window to make a claim for something you have no idea about yet.

MoneyPit1977 · 19 December 2017 at 1:08PM

Xbigman wrote: »

I did not imply otherwise. My point was that the extra offered was so small that agreeing to a settlement was pointless. The OP would be just as well off if they simply said they would think about it for a week and then said no.
Likewise if no formal redundancy process has been done then turning down an offer would trigger the formal process which will take more than a week too.
The bottom line is that one weeks extra pay to go with a settlement rather than be made redudant is pretty much a waste of tme

Darren

I would agree. A properly written settlement agreement will remove any rights you have to retrospectively make a claim against your prior employer. 1 weeks pay is not much in return for giving up all those rights.

In terms of holiday pay there was a very interesting case recently which has got employers worried (I should know, I'm an HR Director) about retrospective claims for holiday 'back pay' and how this is accrued during employment. The findings of this case may not directly affect the OPs issue but it is worth looking into.

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/sash-windows-decision-leaves-employers-open-holiday-pay-claims/

getmore4less · 19 December 2017 at 4:44PM

MoneyPit1977 wrote: »

......
In terms of holiday pay there was a very interesting case recently which has got employers worried (I should know, I'm an HR Director) about retrospective claims for holiday 'back pay' and how this is accrued during employment. The findings of this case may not directly affect the OPs issue but it is worth looking into.

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/sash-windows-decision-leaves-employers-open-holiday-pay-claims/

as I read it the

Should only really worry you-
if you have people on dodgy self employed contracts not getting any holiday pay.
if you deny the chance for people to take their paid holiday and have a use or lose policy.
if you have a holiday policy that does not provide enough paid holiday.

and best of all it could reopen those cases where the back pay was limited as the liability for further back now becomes due on leaving so no 2 year limit

If the EAT don't mess up this could be a good move as it could transfers more liability to the employer to pay for the holidays and get rid of the use or lose where employers try to stop people taking them as you just get them all paid when you leave.

probably one for a separate thread to discuss.

Settlement agreement - not accceptable

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