POPLA Appeal - EuroCarParks - The Blue Boar

Okie dokie then :beer:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QbLB6mWKp1L1caC43


I particularly like the fact that all the signs across the wall can't be seen when cars are parked in the way.

The one, large white sign that "clearly" says there is ANPR operating, can't be seen at all when a truck is in there delivering. According to staff in the pub, sometimes deliveries are made across the black gates too, which would hide the machine AND the main signage from the entrance.

I also really love how there is no signage on the entrance to say anything about tariff or anpr. So you have to actually go in - at which point your recorded and charged.

I wonder what happens in these car parks if you drive in, can't find a space, and drive out again?

Anyway thanks again look forward to your reply.

Oh wow I didn't even catch that!

Would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Makes me wish that was the reason that I got ticketed cause id have a field day with them.

So do we think I should include all those photos?

Just wondering if some of them make the signage look better than it deserves to.

Well at the final knockings ECP have responded. Should have figured as much.

I've just finished a 12 hour shift but with a 7 day deadline I figured i'd better make a start on this asap

Apologies for any mistakes - i'm half asleep already but I'm hoping this is a good foundation we can work on.

I'm trying to explain what I want to respond to without filling this with a wall of text as best I can.

As always many thanks for the help guys!

The majority of their response appears to just be rehashing what they have already said. Claiming the signage is clear and copies of the original ticket and so forth.

They claim that the PCN is POFA complaint:

"The PCN (NTK/NTO) has been checked by both the BPA and the IPC and we have confirmation that our PCN (NTK/NTO) and has been approved as compliant with POFA

The PCN (NTK/NTO) has been checked by Gladstone’s Solicitors who specialise in assisting private car park operators – legal advice and pre legal advice with regards signage and adhering to POFA and both code of practice"

"Section 18.3 of the British Parking Association’s (BPA) code of practice explains that signs
“must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to
see, read and understand. Signage on site is clear, when parking on private land it is the
driver’s responsibility to read the signage displayed and parked accordance with the terms
and conditions as stated. Euro Car Parks have provided photographic evidence showing that
the appellant remained at the site for 2 hours and 41 minutes (Figure 1)"

They have included some photographs of signage (dated august this year), the white sign (still behind bins I might add), a yellow sign (close up so can't see any obstructions) and a yellow sign up on a post.

I plan to point out that the white sign is again, obstructed by bins, and by a truck in my original photograph. Also that their yellow signs are all well and good in a deserted car park, but not when there are cars obstructing view and finally that the one yellow sign up on a post is too high to see clearly.

Also something that I find interesting is, that although they admit earlier on that we have not named the driver, they have about halfway through started referring to the driver as the keeper!

" Therefore Joe Bloggs should have purchased
a pay and display ticket to cover the full duration of the vehicle parking on site"

Well hang on. At what point did we say who was driving the vehicle? This feels like they have taken a liberty.

"Figure 3 is the transaction report of the payments made by other customers; I can confirm that there are no transactions matching the vehicle registration XXXXXX.
Please note that other customers were able to pay for their parking."

Now according to their own evidence further down there is only one machine at this site. So how exactly do they appear to have two different serial numbers against the transactions? Also our car entered at 14:10. The last payment was made at 14:13 and then nothing for over an hour. Could this be because the last payment stuffed up the machine which is why when our driver reached it, it wouldn't accept payment?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/2B6VN7TORW5Wba5q2

They also confirm a 10 minute grace period was given and that if unable to pay, alternative means or alternative parking should have been found.

Well yeah sure but after spending 20 minutes trying to pay/hunting round for other machine/speaking to the guys in the pub - she would have gotten a ticket anyway so this is just crap.

"By parking on site for 2 hours and 41 minutes Joe Bloggs has accepted the terms and conditions as displayed on the signage and a contract are in place between Joe Bloggs and ECP"

Again assuming that Joe Bloggs was the driver of the vehicle.

Then they have included a photo of the car entering and leaving, driver and passenger partially visible.

Document showing why their PCN is POFA compliant. Don't really see that I can do much with that.

And thats about it really. They seem to have ignored the majority of my original POPLA appeal and just focus on the fact that its down to the driver to check signage and make the payment.

So...yeah I'm thinking to go to town about the signage being covered up by vehicles. Again pointing out that every attempt WAS made for a payment. Question the authenticity of their supposed number plate lists.

Think thats it?

Thanks guys. Sorry about the rambling.

KeithP wrote: »

Are you really going to accept that their PCN is PoFA compliant just because they say so?

If I were you I would be checking out that compliance with a very fine toothed comb.

There is good guidance on that in the NEWBIES thread.
Look for 'Want to dig deeper?' in bold in post #1.

Noooo course not....that would just be silly.... :wall:

Yeah ok so i'll have a good look at that today while i'm at work. A cursory glance doesnt' flag up anything obviously wrong with it though.

Hopefully I'll come back tonight with a bit more to work with