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Civil Enforcement Ltd - CCJ by Default - Advice Needed
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CoolJ
Posts: 5 Forumite
Hello,
This is my first post so apologies if I seem to be seeking advice on a topic which has been covered before and if this post is a little long winded, but any advice would be much appreciated.
I have just discovered (through checking my credit report) that I have an active CCJ against me, issued in August 2016 by default. Through further investigation with the County Court Business Centre I've found out that this is linked to an 'incident' in December 2012 and the claimant is Civil Enforcement Limited. I have absolutely no knowledge of any 'incident' and received no correspondence about this so I don't know what it relates to. All the court can provide me is the date of the incident and a ten digit reference number, which on ringing the telephone number provided by the court, has turned out to be a reference number for a PCN which I am required to pay via the automated line (no humans to speak to). I moved out of my old address just over two years ago (I can prove this as I bought a new house and changed my address on my car insurance and with the DVLA, as well as my driving licence and the electoral roll, I also have numerous other documents to evidence this - banks, insurances, etc). I was not aware of any outstanding debt/request for payment by Civil Enforcement so had no reason to contact them to tell them my new address.
However, the court have confirmed that court papers were issued to my previous address in July this year and as I did not lodge a defence the CCJ was issued by default. The court have advised me to pay £255 to apply to set the CCJ aside, but that there is no guarantee it will be set aside as the claimant only has to serve notice on the last known address that they have. I'm really at a loss as what to do next. Is it worth me applying for the set aside on the basis that I have no knowledge of the incident and I have not lived at my previous address for at least two years?
I have tried to contact Civil Enforcement for more details without any success - they don't respond to answerphone messages to their legal section and the only other number I have is the payment line. So, I can't find out where this alleged parking incident occurred and what I have supposedly done wrong. I'm under the impression that the court will also require that I have a defence to the claim, but as I don't know and can't obtain any details I can't defend it.
My credit score has gone from excellent to poor and this is heartbreaking for me and my new husband. I have spent years ensuring that it is perfect and we were planning on moving house next year, but I clearly won't be able to get a new mortgage (or even move onto a decent mortgage deal at the end of my current term), or any other kind of credit now - and this seems so unjust when I have had absolutely no control over it.
Should I pay the money Civil Enforcement say they are owed (just to remove the threat of bailiffs turning up at my door as I'm sure it won't be long before they do a simple electoral roll check and find out my actual address), and then apply for the set aside and claim the money back. Or do I just go straight for a set aside?
Nothing like this has ever happened to me before so I am really panicking and stressed. Any advice really would be much appreciated - particularly on the likelihood of a judge setting this aside. Thank you.
This is my first post so apologies if I seem to be seeking advice on a topic which has been covered before and if this post is a little long winded, but any advice would be much appreciated.
I have just discovered (through checking my credit report) that I have an active CCJ against me, issued in August 2016 by default. Through further investigation with the County Court Business Centre I've found out that this is linked to an 'incident' in December 2012 and the claimant is Civil Enforcement Limited. I have absolutely no knowledge of any 'incident' and received no correspondence about this so I don't know what it relates to. All the court can provide me is the date of the incident and a ten digit reference number, which on ringing the telephone number provided by the court, has turned out to be a reference number for a PCN which I am required to pay via the automated line (no humans to speak to). I moved out of my old address just over two years ago (I can prove this as I bought a new house and changed my address on my car insurance and with the DVLA, as well as my driving licence and the electoral roll, I also have numerous other documents to evidence this - banks, insurances, etc). I was not aware of any outstanding debt/request for payment by Civil Enforcement so had no reason to contact them to tell them my new address.
However, the court have confirmed that court papers were issued to my previous address in July this year and as I did not lodge a defence the CCJ was issued by default. The court have advised me to pay £255 to apply to set the CCJ aside, but that there is no guarantee it will be set aside as the claimant only has to serve notice on the last known address that they have. I'm really at a loss as what to do next. Is it worth me applying for the set aside on the basis that I have no knowledge of the incident and I have not lived at my previous address for at least two years?
I have tried to contact Civil Enforcement for more details without any success - they don't respond to answerphone messages to their legal section and the only other number I have is the payment line. So, I can't find out where this alleged parking incident occurred and what I have supposedly done wrong. I'm under the impression that the court will also require that I have a defence to the claim, but as I don't know and can't obtain any details I can't defend it.
My credit score has gone from excellent to poor and this is heartbreaking for me and my new husband. I have spent years ensuring that it is perfect and we were planning on moving house next year, but I clearly won't be able to get a new mortgage (or even move onto a decent mortgage deal at the end of my current term), or any other kind of credit now - and this seems so unjust when I have had absolutely no control over it.
Should I pay the money Civil Enforcement say they are owed (just to remove the threat of bailiffs turning up at my door as I'm sure it won't be long before they do a simple electoral roll check and find out my actual address), and then apply for the set aside and claim the money back. Or do I just go straight for a set aside?
Nothing like this has ever happened to me before so I am really panicking and stressed. Any advice really would be much appreciated - particularly on the likelihood of a judge setting this aside. Thank you.
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Comments
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If you do nothing , then yes they "could" get bailiffs , not normally done at this level
or even pay CEL now you will just have your file marked as satisfied , it will not disappear and will still be shown that you are a bad payer , and it needs court action to get you to pay up ,there is a new word for this "getting defaults" its called "credit clamping " and recently mentioned in the daily mail , will link in a moment
link : , please read:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5524754&highlight=credit+clamping
on an average day there are more setasides than court cases , todays list: http://www.bmpa.eu/court.html as you can see , there are 2 cel setasides todaySave a Rachael
buy a share in crapita0 -
This is so sad .... the major flaw in the court must be stopped.
I suggest you write a personal letter to Mrs May re the thread above by pappa. I have linked that thread to yours now.
Mrs May has vowed to look into this.
You need to tell Mrs May your story and explain the problem this has given you.
You need to ask Mrs May what she will do about this and ask what the Justice Secretary is doing and how can the Justice Secretary help you. Currently to set aside a judgement costs £255 which is a scam at the best of times ..... yes the courts are on the cash cow as well ?
These fees are set by government and therefore government can squash them if they so wish
You need to ask Mrs May why the courts cannot distinguish between scammers like Civil Enforcement and genuine companies0 -
CEL can't hold a registered keeper liable, so they have no cause of action against you and you have a strong defence here (we have never lost a defended case v CEL and we've assisted with loads). IMHO there should be no problem getting this set aside at a short hearing to achieve that.The court have advised me to pay £255 to apply to set the CCJ aside, but that there is no guarantee it will be set aside as the claimant only has to serve notice on the last known address that they have. I'm really at a loss as what to do next.
Read this case, the OP even had his Judge decide that the parking firm should refund his £255...he got the case set aside, which cleared the CCJ immediately and completely wiped it. Now he is defending a very defendable case:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5544358
His thread even shows the Witness Statement he wrote to argue it should be set aside and his circumstances are like yours, regardless of the parking firm. I am sure you can plagiarise the sort of thing he said and how he set it out, double line-spaced and clear for the judge, with each paragraph numbered (I'm not talking about his current defence, I mean the WS he used to achieve the set-aside, slightly earlier in his thread).
Yes and you must also know how to show the Judge that you have good prospects of successfully defending this (e.g. use the POFA, no keeper liability, no idea about the contract or contravention or charge so you need to be afforded the chance to defend. Make sure you know about the Beavis case, takes a bit of reading but you need to be able to say why your cases is not affected by the Parking Eye v Beavis decision because yours is different (no admitted driver, no known contract, no agreement on a charge, no legitimate interest shown by CEL to charge such a sum or why, and they do not use POFA-compliant documents so they cannot hold a registered keeper liable - far too long ago for you to know or recall with any reliability, who was driving and you do not have to, in law.Is it worth me applying for the set aside on the basis that I have no knowledge of the incident and I have not lived at my previous address for at least two years?
Stop trying to contact CEL. Never ring these firms, ever. This isn't a normal industry.I have tried to contact Civil Enforcement for more details without any success - they don't respond to answerphone messages to their legal section and the only other number I have is the payment line.
You can say all that in your witness statement explaining why you knew nothing of this charge and that it is a matter that even the Prime Minister has vowed to put an end to (parking firms being able to use old addresses from years ago to get default CCJs when they have no actual cause of action):So, I can't find out where this alleged parking incident occurred and what I have supposedly done wrong. I'm under the impression that the court will also require that I have a defence to the claim, but as I don't know and can't obtain any details I can't defend it.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5524754
You CAN show you have prospects of success to defend it because CEL are known not to be able to hold a keeper liable, as they do not use POFA compliant Notice to Keeper letters. Also they use signs with the 'charge' hidden in small print (unlike the clear sign in the Beavis case) and so in the interests of justice, a keeper should be able to defend such a claim now you have found out about the CCJ.
Go straight for a set aside. Pay the £255 without delay, after reading that other poster's thread for courage!Should I pay the money Civil Enforcement say they are owed (just to remove the threat of bailiffs turning up at my door as I'm sure it won't be long before they do a simple electoral roll check and find out my actual address), and then apply for the set aside and claim the money back. Or do I just go straight for a set aside?PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
CoolJ you are now getting help from the most experienced member of this forum ........ and certainly amongst the top people in the country in relation to 'parking on private land' skulduggery........
please take heart and listen to her words of advice ....
what ever you decide
good luck
Ralph:cool:0 -
Thank you so much for the detailed responses. Coupon-mad I will follow your advice, and get my application for the set aside submitted asap - I clearly have some reading to do first. Again thanks so much, you have provided me with reassurance and given me some confidence that I do at least have a chance of getting the CCJ set aside.0
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Loads of advice on here, and once you find out what where and how, and are on the way to getting the CCJ set aside and overturned you should go for whatever toe rag took CEL on to act as their agents.
Dear entity that took on Civil Enfarcement ltd to act as your agents by providing so called car park management at <LOCATION>
As you are no doubt aware as principal you are jointly and severally liable for the actions of your agents, in this case Civil Enforcement
on the <DATE> my vehicle was issued a parking charge notice, which they then proceeded to follow through with a claim in the county court however as I changed address during this process I did not receive the court papers and was unable to defend the case.
As a result of this I have now received a County Court judgement against me, and my credit score has been severely affected.
This has caused a great deal of stress, and worry and i will now be out of pocket as a result of having to apply for a set aside judgement and a re-hearing.
All this would have been avoided if you had carried out due diligence before allowing a predatory parking company, that belongs to an un-regulated industry to operate in your car park.
I am fully aware that both of the Accredited trade associations approved by the DVLa to access registered keeper data, those being the BPA ltd, and the IPC are not in way shape or form regulatory authorities.
As you should now be aware my costs both financially and in time are substantial and as principal you are jointly and severally liable for the actions of your agents, I trust that you will be back in touch to resolve these issues, and to give re-assurances that this will never happen again.
lots of love Coolj
From the Plain Language Commission:
"The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"0 -
Be strong, you can beat these bullies, they did
http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**
This may also amuse you
http://www.tracykiss.com/product-reviews/my-ukpc-parking-charge/You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Dear All,
Thanks to all of the advice available on this forum and some very helpful members, I was successful in getting my CEL default CCJ set aside last year (it was served to an old address). I just have a couple of questions, which I'm hoping someone can help with.
As expected, after the CCJ was set aside CEL resubmitted the claim to the Country Court. I submitted the necessary paperwork (defence, directions questionnaire) and the case was allocated to the small claims track and a hearing date was set for this month. The Court sent out a letter advising of the final dates for submission of witness statements and for the claimant's payment of the outstanding fee. If this was not paid the claim was to be struck out.
As the deadline for the fee payment was approaching, I rang the Court last week to see if the fee had been paid. They advised me that CEL had served a Notice of Discontinuance in January this year, just after the Court had sent out the hearing date letter. The Court said it was CEL's responsibility to send me a copy. They didn't and I knew nothing about the case being discontinued. The Court have refused to send me any written confirmation but have advised me that the case is now closed and there will no be court hearing.
Given the amount of time and stress that I have endured so far I'm reluctant to simply believe this is all over and really want some final written confirmation. I've just a few questions if anyone can help;
1) Is this normal procedure - can I insist on written confirmation - either from the Court or from CEL themselves?
2) Can I now make a claim for costs against CEL? If so, can I include the original set aside fee in this? I did request this at my original court hearing (within the written submission) but I was so nervous and the Judge was so quick in setting aside the CCJ that I completely forgot to verbally bring it up at the time and she didn't make this part of her judgement. (I literally left the court on a high so relieved to have my credit rating back and was forgetting everything else.)
I'm really angry that CEL get away with ruining people's credit ratings, putting people through so much unnecessary stress, hard work and expense and then get away scott free. Surely the fact that they have discontinued proves that they know they never had a case and this should be some grounds for me to claim back costs against them?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance :-)0 -
CEL are simply a bunch of wild animals
To get a default judgement because you were not there,
is about the limit of their intelligence
Their limitation of intelligence quickly spreads to when
they discontinue .... which they do a lot.
This has cost you time and grief so go for it, claim your
costs and what happened to the £255 SET ASIDE FEE ???
Assume you did not claim this at the time
You are now on the right side so start to draw blood
from these King Cowboys
1: Invoice them for the £255 plus the average of £90 costs
2: They will ignore but as you are in the driving seat, you can
use the same tactics as they do ....
3: An LBA will be in order giving them 14 days to pay up
4: Then issue a court claim which will add a further £25
5: They must respond to the court which will prove very
difficult for them. The parking issue is in the past, it's just
costs now.
See how that goes, you will probably enjoy it
If they fail to turn up, most likely, and/or you win and they
don't pay .... send in the bailiffs.
It's the only way to treat such low life0 -
Read about unreasonable behaviour costs here
https://www.bing.com/search?q=CPR27.14%282%29%28g%29&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-gb&httpsmsn=1&refig=0fda5391784f4bacad7991982eb3a02c&PC=ACTS&sp=-1&pq=cpr27.14%282%29%28g%29&sc=1-14&qs=n&sk=&cvid=0fda5391784f4bacad7991982eb3a02c
and letters before action here
https://www.bing.com/search?q=letter+before+action+template+uk&qs=AS&pq=letter+before+action&sk=AS3&sc=8-20&cvid=02BD32D689574E418105119953038967&FORM=QBRE&sp=4
You are in an excellent position to cost them some money, go for it.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0
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