House renovation (5 bed 3 bath) what type of boiler? adding a pump too??

katepnlo · 21 May 2013 at 1:50PM

pump?

http://www.empressbathroomsdirect.co.uk/pumps-stuart-turner-pumps/stuart-turner/monsoon-standard-4-5-bar-single-positive-head-shower-pump-pd-8220.php?pageId=pd&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=marketing_medium&utm_campaign=froogle_feed

cylinder?

http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog/Telford_Standard_Indirect_Copper_Vented_Cylinder_1800mm_x_450mm_247_Litres.html

http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog/Telford_Standard_Indirect_Copper_Vented_Cylinder_1500mm_x_500mm_272_Litres.html

Haven't had a chance to search much. So much to do

is this an accurate idea of what I am looking for and how do the prices look?

Thank you

southcoastrgi · 21 May 2013 at 1:55PM

pump wise it depends what you intend to feed with it, you really need equal pressures for your shower to be able to get the temps right, where is the cold fed from tank or mains ? are you intending to just use the pump for the shower or all the hot water ?

katepnlo · 21 May 2013 at 1:59PM

I would want to use it for all the hot water...well bath and the 3 showers.

Cold feed....ummm. how would I determine which?.
Got something to do, but I will be back to check the thread shortly. Thanks

Mr_Ted · 21 May 2013 at 2:23PM

southcoastrgi wrote: »

I'm not quite sure on all these calcs what the size of the house has to do with anything, you could own buck house but if you only have one bath/basin/sink then a 36x18 cylinder is big enough

:pThe size of the house doesnt have anything to do with Hot Water requirements, the number of people in the house and their requirements DOES;) SEE>>>
http://www.ecofriendly.ie/water%20usage/water%20usage.htm

:pAND YES the PART L legal requirement for new installations DOES require a WHOLE OF HOUSE calculation to be carried out, so that systems, particularly with the use now of condensing boilers, is NOT over estimated;)
Thats to promote ENERGY EFFICIENCY and why it is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT:)

:wall:It never ceases to amaze me that QUALIFIED RGI's that pertain to be meeting their legal requirements PERSIST in ignoring other LEGAL REQUIREMENTS, or is it just that a bit more brain power and a few more calculations are required on a form, compared to the old method that most people used to guesstimate ad hoc

southcoastrgi · 21 May 2013 at 3:27PM

Mr_Ted wrote: »

:pThe size of the house doesnt have anything to do with Hot Water requirements, the number of people in the house and their requirements DOES;) SEE>>>
http://www.ecofriendly.ie/water%20usage/water%20usage.htm

the fact that they have this written at the bottom, just doesn't fill me with confidence in the rest of that link tbh

You can check your dishwasher and washing machine water usage in their documentation.
Note: that a lot of "A" rated machines have hot (totally wrong it's a cold fill) water input only.
If you have an A rated machine and because of plumbing restrictions you can only supply a cold water feed
it is going to cost more to run.

:pAND YES the PART L legal requirement for new installations DOES require a WHOLE OF HOUSE calculation to be carried out, so that systems, particularly with the use now of condensing boilers, is NOT over estimated;)
Thats to promote ENERGY EFFICIENCY and why it is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT:)

however this isn't a new installation complete with rads, if you did a whole house calc then all the existing rads would be the wrong size thus making your calc for a new boiler a total waste of time & may mean the heating wouldn't work to the delta T the rads were designed to work at

:wall:It never ceases to amaze me that QUALIFIED RGI's that pertain to be meeting their legal requirements PERSIST in ignoring other LEGAL REQUIREMENTS, or is it just that a bit more brain power and a few more calculations are required on a form, compared to the old method that most people used to guesstimate ad hoc

Part L is a building reg & nowt to do with being a QUALIFIED RGI which deals with gas safety although sometimes they do go hand in hand

..........

Mr_Ted · 21 May 2013 at 3:52PM

southcoastrgi wrote: »

You can check your dishwasher and washing machine water usage in their documentation.
Note: that a lot of "A" rated machines have hot (totally wrong it's a cold fill) water input only.
If you have an A rated machine and because of plumbing restrictions you can only supply a cold water feed
it is going to cost more to run.

;)In which case it doesnt come into the equation, after all it is HOT Water usage that is the required calculation isnt it:p

southcoastrgi wrote: »

however this isn't a new installation complete with rads, if you did a whole house calc then all the existing rads would be the wrong size thus making your calc for a new boiler a total waste of time & may mean the heating wouldn't work to the delta T the rads were designed to work at

;)Part L has the legal requirement that if a part of a system is changed the WHOLE system has to be updated in accordance with the regulation:p

southcoastrgi wrote: »

Part L is a building reg & nowt to do with being a QUALIFIED RGI which deals with gas safety although sometimes they do go hand in hand

;)BUT BOTH are LEGAL REQUIREMENTS:p

After so many years of Part L being legislation, WHY are there still disagreements as to requirements from people who should KNOW the requirements and be suitably qualified in them:wall:

its a DAYS COURSE to become a Part L assessor:doh:and a question has to be asked as to WHY building control are not asking for the required paperwork for the whole of new installations when a boiler, or unvented installation, is registered, as is required_pale_:think::whistle:

southcoastrgi · 21 May 2013 at 4:07PM

yes there are certain things to be considered with regard to part L when a boiler &/or cylinder are changed like upgrading to fully pumped, installing a boiler interlock, but somethings are only a recommendation like trv's on all the rads apart from the one where the room stat is,

i find most people who work in BC need a diagram to show them how to scratch their backside let alone what is req with regard to plumbing or heating,

another BS one day course like the one we are suppose to go on to make sure we know what we are doing when we move a basin waste pipe 3", far too much red tape in this country & most of it is crap & serves no useful purpose at all

Mr_Ted · 21 May 2013 at 8:56PM

;)In essence I TOTALLY AGREE, and IMO all who have to work in this field should have to be fully qualified as the legal precedents are set, and I do feel sorry for those that DO spend time and money on qualifications when there are still far to many cowboys out there who DONT:(

Unfortunately also there are those that are qualified that also cause far to many problems as they are inept unskilled and just got into it for the money, AND its about time the powers that SHOULD be get harsher on those, as well as the cowboys:mad:

It is perfectly clear, to me anyway, that PM's on here are also being used to avoid the requirements of conscientious qualified individuals to feed the unskilled and inept with information that COULD be dangerous:mad:
How long will it be before theres an incident occurs due to info gleaned from here and the CRAP hits the fan for the site owner when someone whinges they received advice from here that caused it:eek:
:money:that will be, wont it:eek:

katepnlo · 22 May 2013 at 9:56AM

Thanks guys. Was a really busy day so didn't get a chance to reply yesterday. I used the calculator suggested and it came to the conclusion of about 300 litre cylinder.

Have called a professional and he is coming this afternoon to take a look.

He mentioned it could be the pipes tlo the new bath and ensuit which could be causing pressure issues.

Has said before anything he will trouble shoot it all as we don't want to go ahead with one option if it won't solve it.

Made me feel happy he wasn't going to take my word on it

)))

Do you think I could save money on buying the tankl and possibly pump myself or let him do it if we go ahead?

Thank you again

southcoastrgi · 22 May 2013 at 2:43PM

back on topic

there is a thread here about someone supplying their own materials, now i'm not saying you will experience the same thing however it's something to consider as if your goods are wrong or broken or fail it will be down to you to sort out.

I still think 300 ltrs is too big, but the best thing to do is get the advice from the guy on site, he is going to look at the pipes which could be causing a prob, it could also be an incorrect shower valve & or bath taps, if they are only suitable for high pressure then this will cause a prob with the operation

House renovation (5 bed 3 bath) what type of boiler? adding a pump too??

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