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Housing/Council Tax Benefit Overpayment
mummysrules
Posts: 8 Forumite
Just looking for a bit of advice really. I claimed housing benefit and council tax benefit in 12/13 due to a cut in my hours and was assessed in April 2012 for full benefit. I have now had letters advising I have quite a large overpayment of both benefits as when I applied my tax credits were reduced due to an overpayment of tax credits in a previous year. Once this was paid back my tax credits went up to the normal amount. This was clearly stated on my tax credit award that I sent the council when applying but they made a mistake and assessed me at the lower amount for the whole of last year.
I don't remember getting the award letters from the council but they have forwarded these to me now and it does show the amounts they used in their calculations and it does show the lesser tax credit amount so technically although they have admitted it was their error, it is my fault for not noticing at the time. I must have just looked at amounts on the first page and tossed the rest aside.
My question really is can the council demand this money back. I have no problem paying this in installments as I should have been paying this anyway but I cannot afford this in one go. I feel like such an idiot, if I'd just checked this I'd have had to pay £10 a week extra but now I face a bill of hundreds of pounds. Also I'm applying for a move to another council house but they won't normally let you move if you have arrears, can they hold this against me even though it was their error.
I don't remember getting the award letters from the council but they have forwarded these to me now and it does show the amounts they used in their calculations and it does show the lesser tax credit amount so technically although they have admitted it was their error, it is my fault for not noticing at the time. I must have just looked at amounts on the first page and tossed the rest aside.
My question really is can the council demand this money back. I have no problem paying this in installments as I should have been paying this anyway but I cannot afford this in one go. I feel like such an idiot, if I'd just checked this I'd have had to pay £10 a week extra but now I face a bill of hundreds of pounds. Also I'm applying for a move to another council house but they won't normally let you move if you have arrears, can they hold this against me even though it was their error.
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Comments
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It would be reasonable for the local authority to assume that you would have been reasonably expected to know you were being overpaid when your tax credits increased and your benefits stayed the same. As an increase in Tax Credits is a notifiable change of circumstances and if you failed to inform the benefits department when it increased then the overpayment is your responsibility.
However you can appeal and push for it to go to an independent tribunal and they will decide if it is a local authority error or not. While your appeal is being dealt with the recovery of the overpayment is suspended.These are my own views and you should seek advice from your local Benefits Department or CAB.0 -
Housing_Benefit_Officer wrote: »It would be reasonable for the local authority to assume that you would have been reasonably expected to know you were being overpaid when your tax credits increased and your benefits stayed the same. As an increase in Tax Credits is a notifiable change of circumstances and if you failed to inform the benefits department when it increased then the overpayment is your responsibility.
However you can appeal and push for it to go to an independent tribunal and they will decide if it is a local authority error or not. While your appeal is being dealt with the recovery of the overpayment is suspended.
I did notify them of my tax credit amount. I gave them every TCAN I ever received. I gave them my TCAN in April 2012 which showed the lower amount and the increase. I told them this and they emailed back to say it is their mistake but I am still responsible for the overpayment as I should have checked the award. Fair enough!
Also it is not reasonably expected that I would know when my tax credits went up that it would change as even with the higher amount of tax credits I was still on a very low income and just assumed I still qualified for full housing and council ax benefit.
All this is besides the point anyway as I know I should have noticed on the award letter, I don't even remember receiving it so must have just tossed it aside. Stupid mistake and I have now learnt from this and will thoroughly check everything in future. But my question really was can they demand this all back in one go. They've now told me they'll take £10 a week off my housing benefit until it's paid back which is good but my income is due to go up in a couple of weeks which will take me off housing benefit completely and I'm worried when this happens they'll just demand the whole lot. Also I'm worried they won't allow a move to another council house as you can't move if you have arrears but the arrears were caused by their error.0 -
You don't have rent arrears, you have a HB overpayment. Different thing altogether and shouldn't prevent another allocation.
The LA just want the bill settled. They will, no doubt, as for it in one hit, but will almost always accept a reasonable payment plan. When the time comes to no longer claim HB, just speak to the council.0 -
It would be more than reasonable for you to go to Tribunal. Escalate it and if decision goes against you make sure you have details of taking it further should it go against you. Good luck.
The OP has accepted responsibility. Why on earth would they want to cost the LA, who provide the OPs local services, even more time and money when services are already being closed across the country? Or do you think that we have too many services and not enough unemployment already?0 -
There are a few points to be made here:
1) The Council will not collect the overpayment in one amount while you remain on HB. They will deduct in instalments. However, if the amount is too high then you can ask them to do a financial assessment (you will need to fill in a form) and they may lower the instalments it to an amount that they feel you can afford. If you are not on HB then you will need to ask them to pay in instalments. The process is the same. You should contact them and ask for the financial assessment they will not do this automatically.
2) As others have said even if the Council has made a mistake then you have to pay back the overpayment unless it is unreasonable for you to have known that you were being over paid. The Government (not just this one but all of them since 1988) place the onus on the claimant for whether the amount of HB being paid is correct or not. The notification letters are proscribed within the Housing Benefit regulations (which is why the the letters are so awful). The expectation is that you are supposed to read them and identify anything that is wrong. Not reading them is not a defence, no matter how unfair that may seem. Resistance,as they say, is useless.
3) You have been advised to appeal by others in this forum, and that is your right. You will need to do so within one month of the letter telling you of the overpayment. If you do not appeal you have another twelve months in which you can make a late appeal. However, a late appeal will only be heard by a tribunal, if it is either a late appeal supported by the Council or that you can show reasonable grounds for why the appeal is late. Reasonable grounds do not include, "I was too busy" or "I forgot" or "I was trying to decide". It is a tough old world out there!
4) Tribunals are independent and part of the Justice Department. However, they can only make decisions within the same Housing Benefit regulations as the Council. What this means is that they are unlikely to come to a different decision to the Council unless it is on a point of law and the Council was wrong. Modern tribunal chairs are usually highly placed legal beavers who know their stuff. They will not turn over a local authority just because the appellant does not like the Council's decisions or cries at the hearing. Tribunals also have to follow the rules of civil evidence. In other words it not sufficient to say that the appellant says that they did or did not do something. They would have to offer some kind of evidence of the fact.
What I am suggesting is even if you do appeal, from what you have said in the forum, I would not think that you would have much chance of winning your case. You could be lucky, but I wouldn't put my money on it. However, that is just my opinion. Other may disagree.0 -
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As the council erred by not using the correct tax credit figure then they can only recover the overpayment from you if you could not reasonably been expected to know you were being overpaid.
You state you did not know - therefore you have grounds to appeal however a tribunal is likely to conclude that you could have reasonably been expected to know... by reading the award letter/s. With this in mind setting up an affordable repayment plan may well be the best course of action.0 -
Thanks for the replies. I don't really think I want to appeal as there's no arguing it really as it is on the 2nd page of the award form what amounts they used in the calculation so if I had read this I would have known. At the end of the day if it had been awarded properly without mistakes I would have had to pay this amount anyway albeit over the course of a year so it's not really cost me anything extra so I'd feel kind of scummy to go appealing and if I won I'd get away with not paying some of my rent just because I was 'lucky' enough that they made a mistake which doesn't feel right.
Thanks lighting up the chalice that puts my mind at ease with regards moving as we urgently need to move to be nearer my gran as she is 80 now and needing some help and doesn't have any other family left to care for her. I'm looking at private rentals too and don't want the council to block a private move because of this either.
I'm just glad they have accepted it was their mistake as the 1st email they sent was quite upsetting when they said that it occured as they made enquiries with HMRC due to me failing to declare changes when I've notified them of everything and sent them every new award. They only enquired with HMRC as I sent another award later in the year which showed how much I'd been paid so far and this did not tie in with the figures they had. They also requested my last 4 payslips too as they wanted to check I had not hidden anything there. It's not nice to be accused of that.0 -
mummysrules wrote: »Thanks for the replies. I don't really think I want to appeal as there's no arguing it really as it is on the 2nd page of the award form what amounts they used in the calculation so if I had read this I would have known. At the end of the day if it had been awarded properly without mistakes I would have had to pay this amount anyway albeit over the course of a year so it's not really cost me anything extra so I'd feel kind of scummy to go appealing and if I won I'd get away with not paying some of my rent just because I was 'lucky' enough that they made a mistake which doesn't feel right.
Thanks lighting up the chalice that puts my mind at ease with regards moving as we urgently need to move to be nearer my gran as she is 80 now and needing some help and doesn't have any other family left to care for her. I'm looking at private rentals too and don't want the council to block a private move because of this either.
I'm just glad they have accepted it was their mistake as the 1st email they sent was quite upsetting when they said that it occured as they made enquiries with HMRC due to me failing to declare changes when I've notified them of everything and sent them every new award. They only enquired with HMRC as I sent another award later in the year which showed how much I'd been paid so far and this did not tie in with the figures they had. They also requested my last 4 payslips too as they wanted to check I had not hidden anything there. It's not nice to be accused of that.
What an honest person you are, I hope it all works out for you. I wish there were more like you in society.Tomorrow is the most important thing in life0 -
One lost his appeal but the other carried on pat the not so Independent Tribunal and the decision eventually went in his favour and he was paid the money back. If Councils error in law then they must be held accountable. Challenge everything if you feel wronged in any way.
Why do you think the Tribunal isn't independent?...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.0
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