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  • FIRST POST
    • Invalidation
    • By Invalidation 6th Dec 12, 3:42 PM
    • 575Posts
    • 620Thanks
    Invalidation
    Posting ESA50, Legal Ramifications. Things you should know
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 12, 3:42 PM
    Posting ESA50, Legal Ramifications. Things you should know 6th Dec 12 at 3:42 PM
    Ive just found that, when an ESA50 is posted, the envelope is opened and then sorted BY THE ROYAL MAIL?
    That leaves all your personal and medical details open to anyone. Surely that's a breach of the DP Act?
    Secondly, if sending the ESA50 back registered or recorded then it isnt being signed for by at the Royal Mail Center and consequently they are in breach of their original delivery contract.
    The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
Page 1
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 6th Dec 12, 3:45 PM
    • 12,138 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 12, 3:45 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 12, 3:45 PM
    I am sorry that you have only just found out about this, but it is old news.

    http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/index.php/2011/10/fury-over-sensitive-benefits-forms-opened-by-royal-mail-staff/
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • schrodie
    • By schrodie 6th Dec 12, 3:52 PM
    • 7,933 Posts
    • 11,241 Thanks
    schrodie
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 12, 3:52 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 12, 3:52 PM
    It's just another example of how much contempt this government holds sick and disabled people in!
    Do the Country a favour - Report a Tax Evader.
    Hotline: 0800 788 887.
    • Invalidation
    • By Invalidation 6th Dec 12, 3:54 PM
    • 575 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    Invalidation
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 12, 3:54 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 12, 3:54 PM
    Originally posted by zzzLazyDaisy
    Only old news if you read that website, but there may be people that dont know this
    The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
  • miduck
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:02 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:02 PM
    Ive just found that, when an ESA50 is posted, the envelope is opened and then sorted BY THE ROYAL MAIL?
    That leaves all your personal and medical details open to anyone. Surely that's a breach of the DP Act?
    Secondly, if sending the ESA50 back registered or recorded then it isnt being signed for by at the Royal Mail Center and consequently they are in breach of their original delivery contract.
    Originally posted by Invalidation
    As zzzLazyDaisy states, this is old news.

    There is no breach of the DPA, and the contract does not mean that your data is open to anyone, anymore than it is when the post is opened in a DWP post room.

    Where a form is sent by Recorded Delivery (Registered no longer exists), it is bulk signed for - one person signs for a number of letters. There is no breach of contract because RM is getting a signature from the recipient.
  • miduck
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:03 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:03 PM
    It's just another example of how much contempt this government holds sick and disabled people in!
    Originally posted by schrodie
    Why is it? Do you understand what the arrangement is between RM and the DWP? It appears that you do not.
    • Invalidation
    • By Invalidation 6th Dec 12, 4:05 PM
    • 575 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    Invalidation
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:05 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:05 PM
    As zzzLazyDaisy states, this is old news.

    There is no breach of the DPA, and the contract does not mean that your data is open to anyone, anymore than it is when the post is opened in a DWP post room.
    Originally posted by miduck
    I disagree, for many reason. The DWP have the right to open mail addressed to them. RM doesnt
    Where a form is sent by Recorded Delivery (Registered no longer exists), it is bulk signed for - one person signs for a number of letters. There is no breach of contract because RM is getting a signature from the recipient.
    And you know this for sure....How ?
    The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
    • Invalidation
    • By Invalidation 6th Dec 12, 4:06 PM
    • 575 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    Invalidation
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:06 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:06 PM
    Why is it? Do you understand what the arrangement is between RM and the DWP? It appears that you do not.
    Originally posted by miduck
    Then please share your Encyclopaedic knowledge of the agreement with us.
    I await with baited breath
    The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
  • miduck
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:12 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 12, 4:12 PM
    I disagree, for many reason. The DWP have the right to open mail addressed to them. RM doesnt


    And you know this for sure....How ?
    Originally posted by Invalidation
    RM has the delegated authority to open DWP post, in the same way that ATOS does.

    When RM open post in their DWP operation, they are doing so as an authorised representative of the DWP, and hence they may sign accordingly.

    Then please share your Encyclopaedic knowledge of the agreement with us.
    I await with baited breath
    Originally posted by Invalidation
    It is on the DWP website - I trust you are capable of looking yourself?
    • Invalidation
    • By Invalidation 6th Dec 12, 4:15 PM
    • 575 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    Invalidation
    RM has the delegated authority to open DWP post, in the same way that ATOS does.

    When RM open post in their DWP operation, they are doing so as an authorised representative of the DWP, and hence they may sign accordingly.
    Originally posted by miduck
    Please post the relevant details here to support your claims

    It is on the DWP website - I trust you are capable of looking yourself?
    Well youre the one arguing the toss, YOU post the details to back up your assertions
    The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
  • miduck
    Please post the relevant details here to support your claims

    Well youre the one arguing the toss, YOU post the details to back up your assertions
    Originally posted by Invalidation
    So you are incapable of finding the information yourself? Had a feeling that would be the case! Bless you, in that case I shall refer you to the following TTFY FOI request, that covers everything you wish to know:

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/dwp_post_handling_contracts

    Do let me know if there is anything you don't understand!
    • Invalidation
    • By Invalidation 6th Dec 12, 4:23 PM
    • 575 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    Invalidation
    So you are incapable of finding the information yourself? Had a feeling that would be the case! Bless you, in that case I shall refer you to the following TTFY FOI request, that covers everything you wish to know:

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/dwp_post_handling_contracts

    Do let me know if there is anything you don't understand!
    Originally posted by miduck
    No I was totally able to find it, however when some acknowledged Benefit Basher as yourself claims anything I will disbelieve it until they can back up their claims,

    However I still claim there is a breach of the DPA with respect to the medical section of this and will be querying it with my MP
    The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
  • miduck
    No I was totally able to find it, however when some acknowledged Benefit Basher as yourself claims anything I will disbelieve it until they can back up their claims,

    However I still claim there is a breach of the DPA with respect to the medical section of this and will be querying it with my MP
    Originally posted by Invalidation
    Acknowledged benefit basher? Not at all dear, I have claimed benefits myself, I simply choose to take a more balanced than zealots such as yourself. It is types like you that give the disabled a bad name - you are obsessive, you take things way too far.

    How do you suggest that this contract differs from those of other DWP contractors? Are you now suggesting they are all in breach of the DPA also?
    Last edited by miduck; 06-12-2012 at 4:33 PM.
    • Invalidation
    • By Invalidation 6th Dec 12, 4:38 PM
    • 575 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    Invalidation
    Acknowledged benefit basher? Not at all dear, I have claimed benefits myself, I simply choose to take a more balanced more zealots such as yourself. It is types like you that give the disabled a bad name - you are obsessive, you take things way too far.
    Originally posted by miduck
    It is Benefit Bashers like yourself that has has driven many many fragile people away from this Forum and on to Forums where they wont be attacked by twisted warped little minds like yourself.. Your vicious uncaring attacks on the disabled are a shame.
    It is types like you that give the disabled a bad name - you are obsessive, you take things way too far.
    Its pretty obvious why you live on your own.
    The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
  • mazza111
    From someone who's not a benefit basher. It is indeed old news and crops up every month or 2


    ATOS/DWP have delegated RM to be their mail room boys, there are a few big companies use this method. I don't image the mail is opened on the shop floor but in a designated room.

    For those of you who are worried regarding this. Posties not only have to follow data protection but also the Official Secrets act.
    4 Stones and 0 pounds or 25.4kg lighter
  • pammys
    For those of you who are worried regarding this. Posties not only have to follow data protection but also the Official Secrets act.
    Originally posted by mazza111
    Thank you for posting this info... it made me feel a lot better.

    Pam
    • Parva
    • By Parva 7th Dec 12, 3:32 AM
    • 1,051 Posts
    • 1,437 Thanks
    Parva
    From someone who's not a benefit basher. It is indeed old news and crops up every month or 2


    ATOS/DWP have delegated RM to be their mail room boys, there are a few big companies use this method. I don't image the mail is opened on the shop floor but in a designated room.

    For those of you who are worried regarding this. Posties not only have to follow data protection but also the Official Secrets act.
    Originally posted by mazza111
    Can only agree with this. I was a postie for a while prior to my medical issues and the security is astounding. Forget to deliver one piece of junk mail and get caught with it in your post bag next morning, that's a major warning on the road to dismissal. The rules surrounding disclosing things are incredibly strict (and rightfully should be). I had debtors returning debt letters as 'addressee unknown' and had to return these as undeliverable whilst still posting other items to the same name at the same address.....
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