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Posting ESA50, Legal Ramifications. Things you should know
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# 1
Invalidation
Old 06-12-2012, 3:42 PM
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Default Posting ESA50, Legal Ramifications. Things you should know

Ive just found that, when an ESA50 is posted, the envelope is opened and then sorted BY THE ROYAL MAIL?
That leaves all your personal and medical details open to anyone. Surely that's a breach of the DP Act?
Secondly, if sending the ESA50 back registered or recorded then it isnt being signed for by at the Royal Mail Center and consequently they are in breach of their original delivery contract.
The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
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# 2
zzzLazyDaisy
Old 06-12-2012, 3:45 PM
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I am sorry that you have only just found out about this, but it is old news.

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com...al-mail-staff/
I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.

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# 3
schrodie
Old 06-12-2012, 3:52 PM
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It's just another example of how much contempt this government holds sick and disabled people in!
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# 4
Invalidation
Old 06-12-2012, 3:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzLazyDaisy View Post
I am sorry that you have only just found out about this, but it is old news.

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com...al-mail-staff/
Only old news if you read that website, but there may be people that dont know this
The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
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# 5
miduck
Old 06-12-2012, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invalidation View Post
Ive just found that, when an ESA50 is posted, the envelope is opened and then sorted BY THE ROYAL MAIL?
That leaves all your personal and medical details open to anyone. Surely that's a breach of the DP Act?
Secondly, if sending the ESA50 back registered or recorded then it isnt being signed for by at the Royal Mail Center and consequently they are in breach of their original delivery contract.
As zzzLazyDaisy states, this is old news.

There is no breach of the DPA, and the contract does not mean that your data is open to anyone, anymore than it is when the post is opened in a DWP post room.

Where a form is sent by Recorded Delivery (Registered no longer exists), it is bulk signed for - one person signs for a number of letters. There is no breach of contract because RM is getting a signature from the recipient.
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# 6
miduck
Old 06-12-2012, 4:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schrodie View Post
It's just another example of how much contempt this government holds sick and disabled people in!
Why is it? Do you understand what the arrangement is between RM and the DWP? It appears that you do not.
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# 7
Invalidation
Old 06-12-2012, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miduck View Post
As zzzLazyDaisy states, this is old news.

There is no breach of the DPA, and the contract does not mean that your data is open to anyone, anymore than it is when the post is opened in a DWP post room.
I disagree, for many reason. The DWP have the right to open mail addressed to them. RM doesnt
Quote:
Where a form is sent by Recorded Delivery (Registered no longer exists), it is bulk signed for - one person signs for a number of letters. There is no breach of contract because RM is getting a signature from the recipient.
And you know this for sure....How ?
The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
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# 8
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Old 06-12-2012, 4:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miduck View Post
Why is it? Do you understand what the arrangement is between RM and the DWP? It appears that you do not.
Then please share your Encyclopaedic knowledge of the agreement with us.
I await with baited breath
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# 9
miduck
Old 06-12-2012, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invalidation View Post
I disagree, for many reason. The DWP have the right to open mail addressed to them. RM doesnt


And you know this for sure....How ?
RM has the delegated authority to open DWP post, in the same way that ATOS does.

When RM open post in their DWP operation, they are doing so as an authorised representative of the DWP, and hence they may sign accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invalidation View Post
Then please share your Encyclopaedic knowledge of the agreement with us.
I await with baited breath
It is on the DWP website - I trust you are capable of looking yourself?
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# 10
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Old 06-12-2012, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miduck View Post
RM has the delegated authority to open DWP post, in the same way that ATOS does.

When RM open post in their DWP operation, they are doing so as an authorised representative of the DWP, and hence they may sign accordingly.
Please post the relevant details here to support your claims

Quote:
It is on the DWP website - I trust you are capable of looking yourself?
Well youre the one arguing the toss, YOU post the details to back up your assertions
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# 11
miduck
Old 06-12-2012, 4:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invalidation View Post
Please post the relevant details here to support your claims

Well youre the one arguing the toss, YOU post the details to back up your assertions
So you are incapable of finding the information yourself? Had a feeling that would be the case! Bless you, in that case I shall refer you to the following TTFY FOI request, that covers everything you wish to know:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ling_contracts

Do let me know if there is anything you don't understand!
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# 12
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Old 06-12-2012, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miduck View Post
So you are incapable of finding the information yourself? Had a feeling that would be the case! Bless you, in that case I shall refer you to the following TTFY FOI request, that covers everything you wish to know:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ling_contracts

Do let me know if there is anything you don't understand!
No I was totally able to find it, however when some acknowledged Benefit Basher as yourself claims anything I will disbelieve it until they can back up their claims,

However I still claim there is a breach of the DPA with respect to the medical section of this and will be querying it with my MP
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# 13
miduck
Old 06-12-2012, 4:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invalidation View Post
No I was totally able to find it, however when some acknowledged Benefit Basher as yourself claims anything I will disbelieve it until they can back up their claims,

However I still claim there is a breach of the DPA with respect to the medical section of this and will be querying it with my MP
Acknowledged benefit basher? Not at all dear, I have claimed benefits myself, I simply choose to take a more balanced than zealots such as yourself. It is types like you that give the disabled a bad name - you are obsessive, you take things way too far.

How do you suggest that this contract differs from those of other DWP contractors? Are you now suggesting they are all in breach of the DPA also?

Last edited by miduck; 06-12-2012 at 4:33 PM.
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# 14
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Old 06-12-2012, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miduck View Post
Acknowledged benefit basher? Not at all dear, I have claimed benefits myself, I simply choose to take a more balanced more zealots such as yourself. It is types like you that give the disabled a bad name - you are obsessive, you take things way too far.
It is Benefit Bashers like yourself that has has driven many many fragile people away from this Forum and on to Forums where they wont be attacked by twisted warped little minds like yourself.. Your vicious uncaring attacks on the disabled are a shame.
It is types like you that give the disabled a bad name - you are obsessive, you take things way too far.
Its pretty obvious why you live on your own.
The DWP = Legally kicking the Disabled when they are down.
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# 15
mazza111
Old 06-12-2012, 4:59 PM
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From someone who's not a benefit basher. It is indeed old news and crops up every month or 2


ATOS/DWP have delegated RM to be their mail room boys, there are a few big companies use this method. I don't image the mail is opened on the shop floor but in a designated room.

For those of you who are worried regarding this. Posties not only have to follow data protection but also the Official Secrets act.
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# 16
pammys
Old 06-12-2012, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazza111 View Post
For those of you who are worried regarding this. Posties not only have to follow data protection but also the Official Secrets act.
Thank you for posting this info... it made me feel a lot better.

Pam
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# 17
Parva
Old 07-12-2012, 3:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazza111 View Post
From someone who's not a benefit basher. It is indeed old news and crops up every month or 2


ATOS/DWP have delegated RM to be their mail room boys, there are a few big companies use this method. I don't image the mail is opened on the shop floor but in a designated room.

For those of you who are worried regarding this. Posties not only have to follow data protection but also the Official Secrets act.
Can only agree with this. I was a postie for a while prior to my medical issues and the security is astounding. Forget to deliver one piece of junk mail and get caught with it in your post bag next morning, that's a major warning on the road to dismissal. The rules surrounding disclosing things are incredibly strict (and rightfully should be). I had debtors returning debt letters as 'addressee unknown' and had to return these as undeliverable whilst still posting other items to the same name at the same address.....
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