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  • FIRST POST
    quinn132
    Chargeback for counterfeit goods shipped from China
    • #1
    • 27th Mar 12, 10:23 PM
    Chargeback for counterfeit goods shipped from China 27th Mar 12 at 10:23 PM
    I have recently purchased some golf clubs from an online shop. After further research due to the DHL tracking starting in China it seems almost certain that the clubs are counterfeit.

    I have contacted Natwest as they were purchased on my Visa Debit card. I was advised to accept the delivery (expected tomorrow) and then if i provide the original invoice, proof they was sold as genuine, an independant report proving they are not genuine and a returns address a claim can be opened to what i presume would be a chargeback.

    Has anybody been through this procedure before or help me with advice? How can i get an independant report proving they are genuine apart from sending them to Mizuno (Manufacturer)? Am i right in thinking that for a chargeback to take place i will need to send the items back to China to the supplier? obviously if this is the case i cant send them to mizuno as they will not return counterfeit goods to me. Lots of questions i know sorry but last one, will i have to return the items before a chargeback decision has been agreed? I mean i wont be very happy spending 50 to return the goods to only then be told i cant be reinbursed?

    I have been doing some research this evening and finding the issue tough to get my head around. I have found a small amount of info but mainly dealing with damaged or non delivered items. Any help regarding charge back for counterfeit goods will be very helpful, also worth noting the site i purchased from has no contact details on there besides email, hopefully the parcel will have a return address on there.
Page 2
  • meer53
    Lisyloo is correct, it doesn't matter whether the seller is still trading, a chargeback can always be done. The seller will have a bank account (they wouldn't be taking Visa payments otherwise) their account is just debited, no questions asked. If the seller has gone bust, the transaction is just added to their debt.

    No bank knows whether a chargeback will be successful when it's actioned. The only way the OP's chargeback won't work is if the seller can prove the goods aren't counterfeit. As i said previously, this is highly unlikely.

    There are huge problems with counterfeit goods from China, best to do your homework before ordering really.
  • gazfocus
    I had to instigate a chargeback once but not for receiving counterfeit goods, it was instead for receiving stolen goods. It was potentially a better situation because all I needed to do was provide the bank with the crime number and details of who was dealing with the case.

    However, just to warn you, you are likely to be waiting a very long time - It took around 6 months for my chargeback to be refunded.

    One suggestion would be to check your bank statement and see if the payment was processed via PayPal or something as it's very unlikely that someone selling counterfeits would have a legitimate merchant account.

    Also, with regards to the discrepancy between invoice amounts, you'll probably find that the invoice amount attached to the parcel you received will be artificially lower than the real cost to prevent customs from getting involved.
  • mugwump
    There have been cases of chargebacks failing because companies are in administration and the bank accounts frozen. If the money can not be claimed, banks will leave the buyer as the unsecured creditor and cancel the chargeback - it has been done (recent thread). Banks have no need or want to become unsecured creditors on behalf of a buyer
  • lisyloo
    it has been done (recent thread)
    Can you provide a link - or any clues for a search e.g. which board it was on?

    Unfortunately just because companies do something, it doesn't always mean it's right/legal.
  • meer53
    thankyou meer53 very usefull information.

    I have just tried to use the sites refund form (site claims 30 days return policy) but the link leads to a 404 URL not found. I have used the customer service email address but cant say im holding my breathe for a reply.

    meer53 you seem to know the procedure well, do you have any expereince or advice regarding counterfeit goods that might be of use to me?
    Originally posted by quinn132
    My advice would be "if something sounds too good to be true then it usually is"

    Stick to genuine websites, (they're not always the first listing on a search engine) check there is a physical address on the website and contact details, always read the terms and conditions regarding returns and refunds. Google the company before placing any orders, for feedback. You'll probably find that all the major suppliers of quality goods have fake websites pretending to be them, selling counterfeit goods, if something is way below the market value, beware. A good indicator is also the spelling and grammar on the website, no genuine company would allow mistakes to appear on their website.

    I've dealt with counterfeit goods from a fake Abercrombie & Fitch website. The fake website actually stated in their T & C's that the goods they were selling weren't actually genuine, it was in very small print but as it was there, our chargeback rejected. The customer hadn't bothered to read anything before ordering.
  • meer53
    There have been cases of chargebacks failing because companies are in administration and the bank accounts frozen. If the money can not be claimed, banks will leave the buyer as the unsecured creditor and cancel the chargeback - it has been done (recent thread). Banks have no need or want to become unsecured creditors on behalf of a buyer
    Originally posted by mugwump
    I've never known this happen, is it a new thing ? Which thread are you referring to ?
  • gnaril
    Regarding the above post by mugwump.

    This is not correct and if these cases ever got to Mastercard the aquirer would get their !!! handed to them.

    The status of the company if they are in admin or their accounts frozen has nothingg to do with the sucess of a chargeback.. The actual merchants bank who ever they are would end up taking the hit for the money that is lost against chargebacks that are keyed against their merchant.

    The rules for Mastercard/Visa/Amex make no reference to a particualr merchants trading position and that itself is not enough to decline a chargeback..

    If I pay for an item and dont get it and the merchant are scam and have done a runner and since the transaction, had their bank accounts frozen. I would win my chargeback ALL day every day.

    Your recent thread that you mentioned, there must be something clearly wrong in whats gone on.

    I speak from experience in coming across a particual bad merchant - 700,000 debt which has been made up of chargebacks etc for goods ordered that the actual bank has had to take the hit on.

    Cheers
  • pelirocco
    Chargeback relies on the bank being able to reverse the complete transaction. I.E. bank get the money back from the seller. Is this likely to happen with them being in China?
    Originally posted by mugwump
    We had fraud on a company card from a company in South Africa , the bank wasnt able to do a charge back because they said there was no agreement with SA , they did eventually refund us the money tho , but that I assume was because it was fraud
    Vuja De - the feeling you'll be here later
  • lisyloo
    Well if we could see the thread we'd be able to tell whether there are any other issues complicating matters.
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