We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Why you should beware signing off ESA if your payments are stopping due to 365 days.
rogerblack
Posts: 9,446 Forumite
In a few weeks, many hundreds of thousands of people on contributory ESA will stop receiving this benefit. Specifically, those that have been in the "work related activity group" for over 365 days.
Some will stop being paid totally - if they have a partner in full time work, or savings, or for other reasons, and some partially.
(Those with neither will generally move onto income-based ESA at the same rate)
For many of these claimants, they may consider stopping their ESA claim, as then they will not have to go through the periodic interviews and medicals.
What's the point if you're getting no money?
Or they may consider moving onto JSA.
There are several classes of people for which this may be worth careful thought.
If you are likely to become more ill over time. If you do not break your claim, and later become eligible for the support group, then you resume getting contributory ESA.
If you break your claim, you are assessed on your savings and household income, and may not be eligible.
Those with insufficient NI years. If you have fewer than 30 years, you will not get a full state pension. Time claiming ESA, even if only 'credits only' counts.
Those that have become more ill, or developed a new condition since their last assessment.
If you report your new or changed condition to the DWP now, then you may be moved to the support group, and continue being paid.
The support group criteria are found on page 13 of http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-06-11.pdf .
If you end your claim, you can never re-claim contributory ESA, unless you have been in work for about 2 years, even if your condition worsens.
Numbers affected - http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/esa-time-limit-wr2011-ia.pdf
Welfare reform act - see section 52 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/pdfs/ukpga_20120005_en.pdf
Some will stop being paid totally - if they have a partner in full time work, or savings, or for other reasons, and some partially.
(Those with neither will generally move onto income-based ESA at the same rate)
For many of these claimants, they may consider stopping their ESA claim, as then they will not have to go through the periodic interviews and medicals.
What's the point if you're getting no money?
Or they may consider moving onto JSA.
There are several classes of people for which this may be worth careful thought.
If you are likely to become more ill over time. If you do not break your claim, and later become eligible for the support group, then you resume getting contributory ESA.
If you break your claim, you are assessed on your savings and household income, and may not be eligible.
Those with insufficient NI years. If you have fewer than 30 years, you will not get a full state pension. Time claiming ESA, even if only 'credits only' counts.
Those that have become more ill, or developed a new condition since their last assessment.
If you report your new or changed condition to the DWP now, then you may be moved to the support group, and continue being paid.
The support group criteria are found on page 13 of http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-06-11.pdf .
If you end your claim, you can never re-claim contributory ESA, unless you have been in work for about 2 years, even if your condition worsens.
Numbers affected - http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/esa-time-limit-wr2011-ia.pdf
Welfare reform act - see section 52 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/pdfs/ukpga_20120005_en.pdf
0
Comments
-
How are they going to determine part (a) of that "olive branch clause" viz?
(a) the person has not at any subsequent time ceased to have (or to
be treated as having) limited capability for work.
Parts (b) & (c) are fairly straightforward.0 -
How are they going to determine part (a) of that "olive branch clause" viz?
(a) the person has not at any subsequent time ceased to have (or to
be treated as having) limited capability for work.
Parts (b) & (c) are fairly straightforward.
'Ceasing to have limited capability for work' - you failed a medical, or did not contest a decision to end your claim on the basis that you were fit for work.
'Ceasing to be treated as having limited capacity for work' - for example you withdraw an appeal.
Exactly which provision will be used to trigger this I'm unsure.
I suspect the DWP will state that
Ceasing a claim means you declare yourself not to have LCW, and therefore are available for JSA, and therefore fail the 'basic conditions' test as above.
However, I can't actually find the specific legislation which enacts this.
A simple reading seems to imply that for you to be determined not to have LCW, you have to actively fail the medical, or fail to send in evidence as requested.
If you terminate your claim, they won't request evidence, hence you will not have been found not to have LCW.
I suspect there is a provision I'm missing saying 'anyone who terminates their claim is deemed fit for work' somewhere.0 -
rogerblack wrote: »'Ceasing to have limited capability for work' - you failed a medical, or did not contest a decision to end your claim on the basis that you were fit for work.
'Ceasing to be treated as having limited capacity for work' - for example you withdraw an appeal.
Exactly which provision will be used to trigger this I'm unsure.
I suspect the DWP will state that
Ceasing a claim means you declare yourself not to have LCW, and therefore are available for JSA, and therefore fail the 'basic conditions' test as above.
However, I can't actually find the specific legislation which enacts this.
A simple reading seems to imply that for you to be determined not to have LCW, you have to actively fail the medical, or fail to send in evidence as requested.
If you terminate your claim, they won't request evidence, hence you will not have been found not to have LCW.
I suspect there is a provision I'm missing saying 'anyone who terminates their claim is deemed fit for work' somewhere.
Forgive me but I'm still confused.:(
This clause was put in to the WRB to cover deteriorating conditions. So for example if your 1 year on CB ESA has come to an end so your CB ESA benefits stops and you have to live off your partners income. Then 2 years down the line you get an illness that you think qualifies you for the Support Group; how do you show that during those 2 years you weren't claiming CB ESA that you had "not at any subsequent time ceased to have (or be treated as having) limited capability for work."?0 -
Forgive me but I'm still confused.:(
how do you show that during those 2 years you weren't claiming CB ESA that you had "not at any subsequent time ceased to have (or be treated as having) limited capability for work."?
Oops.
I should have read closer.
In short - you need to carry on the normal ESA process.
This includes filling in forms, going to interviews, ...
It's just you don't get paid - you just get your NI credits paid, and you continue to be eligible to ESA-C if you go back onto the support group.0 -
rogerblack wrote: »Oops.
I should have read closer.
In short - you need to carry on the normal ESA process.
This includes filling in forms, going to interviews, ...
It's just you don't get paid - you just get your NI credits paid, and you continue to be eligible to ESA-C if you go back onto the support group.
But this could go on for years I just used 2 years as an example. You could wait perhaps 10 years until you find yourself needing to claim CB ESA again if you have a slow degenerative disease e.g MS or Parkinsons.
Filling in what forms and attending what interviews, WFI ones? Don't you only have to go to 5 or 6 of those?
It's all very confusing.
0 -
But this could go on for years I just used 2 years as an example.
Indeed it could.
Though not for 10 years, due to universal credit coming in.
However, you are not required to go to a WFI if you are on contributions-based ESA which is currently not payable due to the 365 day limit, or other reasons.
So, it's 'just' forms, and the medicals.0 -
rogerblack wrote: »Indeed it could.
Though not for 10 years, due to universal credit coming in.
However, you are not required to go to a WFI if you are on contributions-based ESA which is currently not payable due to the 365 day limit, or other reasons.
So, it's 'just' forms, and the medicals.
But you wouldn't be eligible for UC due to income rules (your partner's income).
So only those on IR ESA get called for a WFI!
So if I understand you correctly, if you want to stay "in the ESA system" after getting thrown off CB ESA after 1 year you are going to have to periodically (however often that is) ring up the DWP ask them to send you an ESA50 form to not claim CB ESA and ask them to send you for a WCA assessment again not to claim CB ESA just in the hope that some day in the future you'll be able to claim CB ESA and be placed into the Support Group because you now think your condition warrants it. :eek:0 -
looks like the unemployed and claiming JSA figures are going to sky-rocket in april?0
-
looks like the unemployed and claiming JSA figures are going to sky-rocket in april?
Not really, as if you have used up your entitlement to contributions based ESA, you will have also lost your entitlement to contributions based JSA..I think..so signing on will bring you no cash and will break your ESA claim, which is a bad thing if your condition is progressive and could have qualified you for the Support Group ESA allowance further down the line.0 -
So if I understand you correctly, if you want to stay "in the ESA system" after getting thrown off CB ESA after 1 year you are going to have to periodically (however often that is) ring up the DWP ask them to send you an ESA50 form to not claim CB ESA and ask them to send you for a WCA assessment again not to claim CB ESA :eek:
Though the 365 days may end, a person will still have a date on record for their next ESA review, when that comes up I assume DWP will ask for a renewal/ reassessment even though it may only be to get the NI contributions credited.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 354.8K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.6K Spending & Discounts
- 247.6K Work, Benefits & Business
- 604.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.6K Life & Family
- 262.2K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards