MSE News: The train firms that charge evening peak fares from 3pm

Former_MSE_Guy · 26 August 2010 at 2:49PM

This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

"Some rail operators levy peak rates well outside busy travel times to boost revenue, it is claimed ..."

Read the full story:
The train firms that charge evening peak fares from 3pm

Simon11 · 26 August 2010 at 2:59PM

Another article having a cheap shot at the railway industry whilst have little knowledge of how it works :mad:

I'd like to see MSE :money:propose a way to solve overcrowding if they don't like railway companys using pricing to solve the issue:cool: My ears are open:rotfl:

Solving overcrowding is very differcult and often lead to very expensive solutions. Therefore the only viable solution is to use pricing to lower overcrowding. TOC's only make the decision to increase prices for certain trains when they feel there is a need to reduce overcrowding and encourage passengers to travel on quieter trains.

As for people suggest other ways to reduce over crowding:

-Why not have more trains?
Its not as easy as it seems, and they have to be built test. What makes it worst is when the government takes a decision not to sign new contracts to purchase cheaper rolling stock, such as seen on the Virgin WC where the government isn't agreeing to purchase more rolling stock so all Pendolino are 11 cars. As production is already working to extend half the fleet to 11 cars, it wouldn't cost too much to have all trains have 11 cars. Also think of the costs of running a fleet with different numbers of cars.... Plus there are costs with extending train cars such as signalling as the distances have to be changes, driver training, platform extensions ect

- Why not put on more train services during busy times?
TOC's would love to have more slots and be able to offer more train services when needed but the infrastructure doesn't often allow this. The government also dictates to rail companies trains that the firm must run. So therefore some TOC's are being forced to run services during the Off peak when they are empty rather than have them on busier routes.

If government were to be more flexible with TOC's contracts, it would lead to far lower overcrowding such as allowing the railway companies to change the pricing of Anytime and Off Peak fares.

epm-84 · 26 August 2010 at 3:08PM

The article says that off-peak on Northern Rail ends at 09:30. However, on some routes where the fare is set by Northern Rail no off-peak fare exists meaning you have to pay peak fare whatever time you travel.

It also says Merseyrail ends off-peak at 09:30 and has no evening fare restrictions. However, from 9th September Merseyrail are withdrawing all Off Peak Returns, so you'll have to pay peak fares all day every day. If this happened in the South East it would be national news yet it gets overlooked by the media because it's in the North West.

Lum · 26 August 2010 at 4:00PM

Agree with the comments about overcrowding, it really does need to be addressed by the government.

However in many ways the overcrowding issue is similar to the congestion issue on the roads. They are peak times because people MUST travel at those times because their employers require certain hours. Putting the price up can discourage non-commuter types such as holidaymakers, chavs and students but the only way the train companies can get rid of the commuters that are overcrowding their trains is to put the price up so much that it's cheaper to get the bus or drive instead.

What we really need is for government to force more employers to offer flexible hours and/or home working so that commuters are spread more thinly across a wider range of times, then there will be less need for railway companies to try and force this with high peak prices.

antonia1 · 26 August 2010 at 4:17PM

Train companies are subsidised by the government to provide a service to the public. Confusing passengers so that only the most experienced can get cheap tickets is simply unacceptable.

For instance, I recently travelled from Watford to Liverpool at a little after 3 on a Friday afternoon (I usually make the journey at 7.40pm, arriving at 11.15pm, as that is the earliest that advance tickets are available). On this 3pm journey, had I travelled Watford-Milton Keynes-Liverpool I would have had to buy a peak ticket, whereas if I travelled Watford-Birmingham-Liverpool I could use an off-peak ticket even though in each case one train was Virgin and one London Midland and they both took approximately the same amount of time. However, a woman on the Watford-Birmingham (Virgin) train was told that she had to have a peak ticket, although I did not, as her journey ended at Birminham.

This is on top of the fact that a standard off-peak return ticket for the journey costs £66 for an adult. My car (admittedly a diesel, but a 1995 model) costs less than £50 to make the same journey.

It is little wonder that people choose to stick to their cars when it is more complicated, more restrictive and more expensive to travel by train. If the government is committed to reducing carbon emissions these issues needs to be addressed.

becky_rtw · 26 August 2010 at 4:56PM

Interesting they should reference East Coast in the article...I travel between Kings Cross and Leeds every other week...to travel late on Thursday night (off-peak supposedly) is more expensive than to travel on Friday morning (arriving into Leeds at 9:00am)...this is with advance singles

So how then can peak fares (for non advance tickets) be the other way around? Since the advance singles should be cheapest when demand is lowest...

Also my other half does the reverse journey and the cheap singles are always available in the evenings instead of in the mornings...all in all its ODD how their pricing works!

First captial connect is strange to Cambridge too - from Kings Cross you can buy an off-peak day return almost all day, but from Cambridge you can only buy it for about 4 hours after 9am...and you cant return to Cambridge before about 8pm from London, but of course people in London can turn up and buy an off-peak return and get on any peak train after 5pm (the same train thats too busy apparently) !!!!!!!!!

geordieracer · 26 August 2010 at 4:59PM

I like how they are comparing Merseyrail with both virgin and east coast trains which go into london...

bit of a difference on the amount of people who travel i should think...

Livingthedream · 26 August 2010 at 5:14PM

antonia1 wrote: »

Train companies are subsidised by the government to provide a service to the public.

Wait until the condems' review that subsidy, if they slash it then the train companies can only make a profit from its passengers and/or job cuts which will impress the unions.

epm-84 · 26 August 2010 at 5:18PM

geordieracer wrote: »

I like how they are comparing Merseyrail with both virgin and east coast trains which go into london...

bit of a difference on the amount of people who travel i should think...

It's certainly not comparing like with like. London Overground are a similar franchise to Merseyrail but Merseyrail are much bigger with more routes and carriages.

geordieracer · 26 August 2010 at 6:53PM

epm-84 wrote: »

It's certainly not comparing like with like. London Overground are a similar franchise to Merseyrail but Merseyrail are much bigger with more routes and carriages.

that was my point

Roustabout · 26 August 2010 at 7:54PM

geordieracer wrote: »

that was my point

I find the ticketing mind bogglingly difficult to understand and if I was caught with the wrong one on a train and the attendant got arsy I would telly him to take a hike.

As far as I am concerned the Peak and Off Peak bands should be set in stone nationally so they are the same across the network.

With regards to overcrowding. This is happening in my area because trains that actually had more coaches were replaced by totally ineadequate 2 coach trains. How the operator thinks they can get the contents of 4 or 6 coaches into 2 is beyond me.

Also if I ever had to stand on a train I would go and sit in 1st class and if the attendant didnt like it he would have to get me arrested.

MSE News: The train firms that charge evening peak fares from 3pm

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