Collection agency for <£10

Allan87 · 8 May 2008 at 1:41PM

I bought a website domain name back in 2003, I didn't want it anymore so let it expire in 2005. Now 3 years later I've been told 1&1, whom I bought the domain from are seeking payment for 2005-2009! It's a .co.uk which according to Nominet all I needed to do was let it expire naturally in order to cancel it. I didn't sign any credit agreement allowing 1&1 to buy domains for me and charge me later so can this CA enforce their invoice?

rog2 · 8 May 2008 at 2:22PM

Allan87 wrote: »

I didn't sign any credit agreement allowing 1&1 to buy domains for me and charge me later so can this CA enforce their invoice?

I doubt very much that you signed any agreement, although you may have 'clicked' accepting the conditions - very few people actually spend time to 'read' the agreement conditions. That said, I would think it most unlikely that this 'invoice' can be enforced.
Have they actually sent you a 'letter' and does it quote an agreement number?
I'm not sure if the Consumer Credit Act, 1974, covers the purchase of domain names, but it may be worth your while requesting a true copy of the original consumer credit agreement - I doubt that they would be able to provide it.

Broken_hearted · 8 May 2008 at 2:28PM

I used to send debt letters out for as little as £1 when I worked for Blockbusters, ythey even hinted at court action. Not sure if they did bother taking anyone to court to enforce the debt though.

Allan87 · 8 May 2008 at 2:40PM

They have sent a letter and several emails. They haven't quoted an agreement number, just the name of the domain. Does 1&1 purchasing the domain indefinately whenever its up for renewal count as credit and would that need a signed credit agreement possibly?

Here's what they emailed me today.

"Any Company online, will not set an account up before the terms and conditions have been accepted.
Therefore you have accepted the terms and conditions before this account was set up. 1&1 would assume that you would have read these prior to accepting.
Arvato Finance don't have a contract with yourself and therefore we are not liable to pay for anything you may send in a bill type format."

Allan87 · 27 May 2008 at 8:31PM

I've asked for a copy of the consumer credit agreement and have yet to get one. I've now been referred to their solicitors and the charge has gone up to £90. Can they do this seeing as I am still waiting for evidence of my liability, which they don't seem to have.

GeorgeUK · 27 May 2008 at 9:18PM

Are Arvato Finance collecting the debt on behalf of Nominet?
Is so, did you send the CCA to Arvato?

Seems they may have altered their T&C around that time for cancellations.
http://www.nominet.org.uk/digitalAssets/3000_PositiveRenewalsErrorsOct.pdf

I'll do a little more digging to see if i can find the outcome of this, but page 15 of this report seems to back up what you were saying. Just don't know there was a change in T&C would have caught you out. This report is 2007 though and seems to be the same as what you said was the procedure in 2003 or whenever you looked at the T&C on purchase.
http://www.nominet.org.uk/digitalAssets/26165_Nominet_Domain_name_industry_report_2007.pdf

EDIT: Some DCA's say they will be passing it on to their solicitors, but that doesn't absolve them of their legal requirement. They have 12(+2) working days to come up with the CCA. Don't let them put you off with these letters.

Allan87 · 27 May 2008 at 10:25PM

On behalf of 1&1. I have not signed any CCA, physically or electronically which is why I asked for a copy as I know they don't have one. Their solicitor have gave me 15 days in which to pay up before a CCJ is started, I have no idea what they're going to submit as evidence as I still think purchasing domains for me and invoicing later (some 3 years) is a form of credit.

newsgroup_monkey · 28 May 2008 at 9:46AM

Firstly, before I get anyone in any trouble, I have checked and double checked the following information.

I've had this fun and games with 1and1 before. Fortunately, I just paid up before it got nasty. I have quite a few domains with 1and1 and unfortunately when 1 defaults, they shut all of your domains down.

They are cheap and pretty quick to set stuff up, but you must remember to expire domains. Unlike most other companies who expire domains unless you tell them otherwise,1and1 don't. Don't bother asking them to be lenient.

I quote by the way from what I regard as a rather aggressive email

We do not provide email notification for when domains are about to renew. It would be your responsibility to monitor and maintain your domain's renewal dates. This is all outlined within the terms and conditions that you had agreed to upon signing up.

Incisor · 28 May 2008 at 10:29AM

Allan87 wrote: »

I've asked for a copy of the consumer credit agreement and have yet to get one. I've now been referred to their solicitors and the charge has gone up to £90. Can they do this seeing as I am still waiting for evidence of my liability, which they don't seem to have.

No way is that consumer credit. It's a recurring contract. You got caught on not reading the terms to realise that it was indefinitely recurring. What you need to establish is how to cancel. Your only out is if you find that the terms for cancellation are unfair.

Just offer the initial amount asked for in full and final settlement, with the contract cancelled.

GeorgeUK · 28 May 2008 at 12:02PM

Looking at the right company now and according to the T&C

4.4 The Company agrees that for the Duration Period of this Agreement and in consideration of the payment of the Charges by the Customer it will renew the registration of domain name(s), Hosting fees, Additional services for the Renewal Period.

Now correct me if i'm wrong, but i read this as the company agreeing that for that period of the agreement and on payment of the charges, the registration of the domain will be renewed.

No payment was made - so there should not have been any renewal.

Double checked the Nominet site and you are quite right. They are not following the Registrars Procedure.

If a domain name is detagged and has not been renewed, we will send a pro forma invoice directly to the registrant. You will not be able to submit a renewal request. We will only accept the registrant's authority to retag the domain name, with no exceptions. All retags will be treated as a registrar transfers and we will levy a charge to the registrant for making a transfer in our normal manner. The new registrar will be able to submit a renewal request for the domain name after it has been retagged to them or the registrant can pay our pro forma invoice. Therefore you should be particularly careful not to detag a domain name that you feel your customer may not wish to renew. Instead you should not renew the domain name until your customer has contacted you.

hawkeye9999 · 28 May 2008 at 4:57PM

Did they actually renew the Domain?

Collection agency for <£10

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