Classed as living together?

Jet · 11 August 2005 at 6:55PM

For example if a couple decide to separate and one partner will be moving out of the home. When do they 'officially' stop being a couple?

If the breadwinner refuses to give any money to the stay at home mum, can she claim benefits as a single person even though he is still living there? I presume she has to wait until he has moved out.

Am I right?

Ted_Hutchinson · 11 August 2005 at 7:33PM

Thread from uk.gov.social-security where "living together" was an issue. From which I've cut and pasted my rely to that thread

The Decision Makers Guide Volume 3 chapter 11 sets out the tests the DM must use to consider the matter.
From this I have cut and pasted

11047 To be considered as LTAHAW the couple must be members of the
same household. Being members of the same household means that

1. they live as members of the same household, flat, apartment, caravan or other dwelling place and neither normally live in another household and

2. they both live there regularly, apart from absences necessary for employment, to visit relatives, etc

Household and home are not the same. This particularly applies where married couples separate and refuse to leave the matrimonial home.
1 R(SB) 4/83

Example
An ex-married couple may still live in the same house. One partner is reluctant to leave, until a satisfactory financial agreement has been reached with the other partner.

11048 The fact that a couple are members of the same household does not mean that they are LTAHAW. The DM should consider
1. what caused the couple to live together and

2. the facts and circumstances that exist while they are living together1.

A relationship may resemble LTAHAW but consideration of its origins
may show it to be something quite different.

Housing Benefit guidance

dag_2 · 11 August 2005 at 8:16PM

I assume that LTAHAW means "living together as husband and wife", yes?

Unfortunately, the term "household" doesn't appear to be defined. In marketing jargon, a "household" is normally considered to be a person or group of people who live more or less completely out of each other's pockets for small things, but who need to agree with each other about bigger purchasing decisions - but I don't suppose the benefits system uses the same definition.

I can see why there might be disputes about it from time to time - but I think the key is to get a clearer definition of what "household" means.

More to the point - is there any right to appeal against the decision of what does, or does not, constitute a household? And how do you go about it?

Ted_Hutchinson · 11 August 2005 at 8:50PM

dag wrote:

I assume that LTAHAW means "living together as husband and wife", yes?

YES Sorry I didn't explain the abbreviation.

Unfortunately, the term "household" doesn't appear to be defined. In marketing jargon, a "household" is normally considered to be a person or group of people who live more or less completely out of each other's pockets for small things, but who need to agree with each other about bigger purchasing decisions - but I don't suppose the benefits system uses the same definition.

I can see why there might be disputes about it from time to time - but I think the key is to get a clearer definition of what "household" means.

More to the point - is there any right to appeal against the decision of what does, or does not, constitute a household? And how do you go about it?

More DWP official guidance

If you think our decision is wrong (GL24) gives details of the appeals procedures for disputing any decision. If you can explain your living arrangements and the reasons why you believe it's unfair to treat you as a couple when you are living as separate individuals in shared accommodation then there should be no problem.

Pere_Ubu · 12 August 2005 at 7:44PM

If you are not living as a couple then I would simply say that and then see what their reaction is. They can't ask personal questions about sleeping arrangements etc. What about a judicial separation? This will provide you with documentary evidence to enable parties to claim all the benefits they are entitled to.

Amie_007 · 15 August 2005 at 4:43PM

As long as you can prove that you maintain seperate lives within that household, then you should be OK. The need to show that you no longer live as a couple, is the key to living as separated in the same household ie, no longer eat meals together, share domestic duties/responsibilits such as cleaning, laundry, decorating, gardening, car maintenance etc, go out as a family, socialise, share finances and ameneties (cars/transport etc) They may also want to consider interviewing your ex partner also to see what his account is. If you have any joint finances, you will need to show that these arrangements have also broken down and you will need to show that you no longer hold this joint agreements with one another. You really do need to show that you have separated your lives and are now living completely independant of each other. If you have children, then they will want to know if he is paying maintenance etc.

Tabbykatt · 15 August 2005 at 5:28PM

Hi Jet

I was in this position when I split from my now ex-husband in 2002. He worked within HM Forces and we lived in a married 'quarter' ie house owned by HMF.
He refused to move into the base camp and I could not be rehoused until I had been issued by an eviction order (took about 3 months).
He stated that he paid the rent out of his salary so he was doing his fair share towards the up-keep of out 2 very young children (ha ha) so I literaly had no money for food/clothing etc etc and work was not an option as my children were only 16 months and 4 months.
I applied for benefits and to be honest they were really really helpful, they did come to the house but I didnt feel they were nosing into my life. I had imagined horror stories of them rooting through my cupboards and spying on me as to whether I washed my ex's underpants (not that I would have lifted a finger for the a**e by this stage!) but it wasn't like that at all.
I really do think that it is something that is quite common in this day and age of mortgages/debts etc etc. So long as the finances and living arrangements are seperate (remember no thinking you can slip the ex's washing in with yours just cos you have some room in the washer!

). I did get a formal letter signed by my ex to state that he paid the rent and that was all the monetary help he was giving me and I think this helped.
I hope that this helps?

Classed as living together?

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