CH: Are We Law-Breaking?

valiant23 · 26 October 2004 at 2:17AM

I am responsible for running a fund-raiser for my local (amateur) football club. This is based on gambling where people pay £1 to try and guess the outcome of 7 football matches. If they succeed they win at least a share of the jackpot. The jackpot 'rollovers' if we have no winners and is increased.
We had a turnover of about £4 000 last season of which 60% was paid out to winners, and the remainder went to benefit the club and its members(I have the accounts if the money and percentages involved are important).
Can anyone tell me if I should be applying for some kind of charitable status, or if I need to apply for some kind of licence from the local authority.
Also do we need to pay tax? ???
All views would be appreciated as all I've done is taken an idea and ran with it for my club without thinking of the consequences.

Savvy_Sue · 26 October 2004 at 3:53AM

You don't have to have charitable status to do this, but you do need a licence for gambling ... which I believe is taxed and regulated quite heavily.

Someone else will I am sure point you to helpful websites and legislation - my own fundraising efforts were limited to raffles which were covered a while back. If you only sell raffle tickets on the day, you don't need a license. If you sell them in advance, you need properly printed tickets and to be registered with the local authority.

In the meantime I'd be preparing a script which went along the lines of "I've been thinking of doing ..." or "Suppose I were to ..." ready for a phone call in which you hope not to be asked for your name and address. If it appears you have been doing the wrong thing, STOP and get legal advice quick. Any solicitors among your supporters or players?

As a quick fix - because your efforts must make a big difference to the Club - have you come across '500 clubs'? (It can be any number but we'll use 500 as an example.) You sell 'membership' of the Club to 500 people at £1 per month. Your income = £500 per month. You distribute a percentage of this as monthly prizes, drawn randomly. You decide whether you want to give away, say 1 prize of £100 each month, or 1 of £50 and several smaller ones. Etc. I can't comment on the legality of this, but I've seen it offered in enough places (schools and clubs) to make me think it is OK and reasonably hassle free - it is not gambling on the outcome of a game.

Oh, another place to go to for advice might be the league, FA, or whoever your club is affiliated to. Again, I'd ask in general terms without actually saying who you are initially.

valiant23 · 27 October 2004 at 12:02AM

Thanks Savvy Sue, thought as much. I'll just have to bite the bullet and make the call, although it is tempting to bury our collective heads in the sand...

A shame when such a good idea borne out of good intentions will choke on red tape.

Will investigate off-shore a/c's next, I think ;D

Savvy_Sue · 27 October 2004 at 2:50AM

Thanks Savvy Sue, thought as much. I'll just have to bite the bullet and make the call, although it is tempting to bury our collective heads in the sand...

A shame when such a good idea borne out of good intentions will choke on red tape.

Will investigate off-shore a/c's next, I think ;D

I think you're wise to sort it. You may find it's still worth doing even after you do it 'legally', if that's possible. I know that in all my days of running school fairs etc the stalls which made the most profit were ALWAYS the raffle, the tombola, and anything where you bought a ticket not knowing what you'd win - if anything! It never failed to astonish me how much people were prepared to shell out on these stalls! But then, I'm not a gambler: I know the house always wins!

Do let us know how you get on sorting it out: sorry I can't point to any specific sites but my brain has gone to jelly ...

valiant23 · 5 November 2004 at 4:49AM

Ok, first of all, has anyone ever typed a really long post only to lose it? :-[

Right, I got in touch with the relevant person at my council and talked for about 15 mins about my fund-raiser. I took the stance that I expected there to be a provision for it under law(because I beleived there would be), and the council spent 15 minutes explaining why that wasn't the case.

In the 1st draft of this post I explained in detail the arguments I was given, and having typed it all out I aren't sure I'll remember them in the right order, but here goes...

1-It may seem like gambling, but people are invited to join in on a private basis, and it is not done for 'personal gain'(this term includes fund-raising for a poorly person who needs specialist treatment/equipment, and would receive 'personal gain' from any fund-raising done on their behalf-crazy).

2-Although the 'chances' are sold in advance, there is an element of skill involved, unlike a raffle where it is totally left to chance.

3-500 clubs. I think this is what is termed as a 'private lottery' Certain conditions have to be met, one of them being you may only sell chances to members of a club AND their direct families. According to my loc.auth. they do not require licensing.

As I've already explained, my fund-raiser is similar to all 3, yet I think the loc. auth. rep. beleived it to be different enough not to be covered by legislation as it stands.

Whilst this phone conversation reassured me greatly, I think I will make a detailed written proposal to the relevant dept., in the hope that it will force the council to reply in writing that the information/advice I received on the phone was correct.

Thanks Savvy, as I wouldn't've got in touch with them were it not for you.

If anyone who reads this is interested in my fund-raiser, and thinks it will help their organisation, please pm me and I'll see if I can help(obviously for free), as long as its not against forum rules.

Savvy_Sue · 5 November 2004 at 10:11AM

That's great! I am so glad you are OK to carry on doing this. Trying to get it in writing from the council is a good plan. Keeping an eye on the new gambling bill would also be a good idea!

And yes, I have also 'lost' long posts! Sometimes I draft them in Word then cut and paste into this!

MillwallSue · 9 December 2004 at 2:58AM

Our PTFA (wich is a registered charity) runs a 100 club, and we run this under a lotteries licence granted to us from the local council for a small fee on an annual basis. We have to supply returns to the licencing division on a three monthly basis where we declare how much we've taken, how much is given in prizes and where the balance goes (eg £100 per month = £50 prizes, £50 to the PTFA). As we are a Parent Teacher and FRIENDS Associaiton, the friends bit covers a lot of people! The licence also allows us to sell printed raffle tickets to the public for our summer fair raffle, as opposed to raffles with cloakroom tickets where you don't need a licence.

Before we started the 100 club I believe I found out info by typing in 100 clubs on google and eventually found what I had to do and who to contact.

I would be really careful in protecting yourself when you are looking after other peoples money. People can get very funny!

CH: Are We Law-Breaking?

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