Ebay fraud. Can I ask my CC company for a chargeback?

xwing · 19 July 2005 at 12:47PM

Not sure if this is the right place. But do hope someone can help.

Bid on a digital camera and paid by PayPal 20 days ago but never receive it.
The seller seems to have numerous excuses.
It cost me more than 200 pounds.

For this seller, only "standard purchase protect" available.
i.e. ebay will cover no more than 120 quids.
Can I ask the credit card company (natwest mastercard) for a chargeback?

Thanks a lot.

omega27 · 19 July 2005 at 1:45PM

You can certainly ask them, although they provided the funds to Paypal as agreed. Imagine if you withdrew money from your CC at a cashpoint, then got it stolen. Would the CC company be liable??

ChrisBrand · 19 July 2005 at 1:58PM

Hi,

Make an 'Item Dispute' claim to PayPal. They will put the money on hold while they investigate.

The seller will have to prove the item has been dispatched or they'll put a chargeback on his account.

Do it now. I think you have thirty days to make the claim. It can be done by going to the 'Resolution Centre' once you've logged into PayPal.

Good luck,

Chris.

grumbler · 19 July 2005 at 2:06PM

Just a couple of similar threads:

Consumer Credit Act - Section 75

Dodgy purchase

xela_17 · 19 July 2005 at 2:38PM

Also may be worth asking the same question (or just checking for similar threads) on the ebay board. Lost of helpful ebay related advice over there.

MarkyMarkD · 19 July 2005 at 10:56PM

There's no way the CC company are liable.

There are two transactions here:

(1) you pay money to paypal using your card - transaction fulfilled fine and well and covered by CCA
(2) you pay money from paypal to the con merchant - nothing to do with the credit card company at all and not covered by CCA.

Using paypal is NOT safe (at least, not protected by CCA) for the reason that the transaction between you and the supplier is not done directly using the credit card.

Alfie_E · 20 July 2005 at 1:38PM

PayPal are acting as an extra party in a transaction. The CCA was originally drafted to cover three-party arrangements - the buyer, the merchant and the credit provider. Credit card transactions are usually four-party arrangements - the buyer, the merchant, the card issuer and the merchant acquirer. This was part of the part of the reasoning for the High Court ruling of 12 November 2004, in which card issuer was deemed not to be liable, if the merchant acquirer was not in the UK. This doesn't effect four-party transactions within the UK. Adding in PayPal as a fifth party doesn't automatically invalidate the Section 75 of the CCA, for UK transactions.

However, there is one major question mark over this. Transactions authorised through PayPal (Europe) Ltd don't always seem to be processed by PayPal (Europe) Ltd. I've had payments made to the same email address processed, on one day, in the UK, then, on a different day, in California - presumably by PayPal Inc. I'm currently in correspondence with PayPal about this. Today, I got a letter from them from Eire - no answers, just stalling.

To the OP's question: yes, you could request a credit card chargeback. PayPal spent a lot of time trying to wiggle out of their liabilities under the Card Scheme Rules from both Visa and Mastercard. PayPal have since been forced to concede liability. If companies could escape chargebacks that easily, the whole chargeback system would be rendered useless. Dodgy Company X Ltd would set up Dodgy Company X Card Services Ltd to process card transactions for them. Dodgy Company X Card Services Ltd would then claim they'd done their part, by collection and passing on the money to Dodgy Company X Ltd. Section 75 is really only useful in situations where the merchant has gone bust, leaving you with either no or faulty goods. That is "merchant" from the credit card viewpoint, which is PayPal.

But, as Chris wrote, you need to file a complaint with PayPal first. Part of the PayPal User Agreement requires you to complete PayPal's Dispute Resolution procedures, before attempting a credit card chargeback.

xwing · 21 July 2005 at 1:08PM

thanks a lot.

Ebay fraud. Can I ask my CC company for a chargeback?

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