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query as a creditor

JoeHel
Posts: 446 Forumite
Hi. I hope you don't mind me posting on here but I'm not sure what we should do. I have a query from the creditor side of things as I have no idea what actually happens with bankruptcy.
Basically, after 4 years of solicitor's letters and hassle, my partner was awarded £21k in a compensation case in March of this year. He hadn't worked for 3 years due to complications with breaking both his legs falling from a ladder at work. His boss ignored all solicitors letters and ended up in court, where he was ordered to pay compensation of just under £21k.
Anyway, the boss has now declared himself bankrupt. I have absolutely no idea what implications there are for us and whether my partner will ever see a penny of his money.
The thing is, in the time my partner hasn't worked we have run up pretty substantial debts ourselves (about £20k) and thanks to this site I'm budgeting properly and starting to clear them, but it's been such a hard struggle. Would it ever happen that the bankrupt could be told to make his creditors small regular payments from what he earns to pay off any of his creditors or is everything just wiped clean?
Thanks for any info anyone could give me.
Basically, after 4 years of solicitor's letters and hassle, my partner was awarded £21k in a compensation case in March of this year. He hadn't worked for 3 years due to complications with breaking both his legs falling from a ladder at work. His boss ignored all solicitors letters and ended up in court, where he was ordered to pay compensation of just under £21k.
Anyway, the boss has now declared himself bankrupt. I have absolutely no idea what implications there are for us and whether my partner will ever see a penny of his money.
The thing is, in the time my partner hasn't worked we have run up pretty substantial debts ourselves (about £20k) and thanks to this site I'm budgeting properly and starting to clear them, but it's been such a hard struggle. Would it ever happen that the bankrupt could be told to make his creditors small regular payments from what he earns to pay off any of his creditors or is everything just wiped clean?
Thanks for any info anyone could give me.
QUIT SMOKING 4/11/07 :j
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Comments
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Hi and welcome to the board.
It will depend if the OR awarded the BR an IPA/O. This is where if a BR has any surplus to their I&E of over a £100 the OR will take between 50-70% of the surplus for the creditors. This will carry on for 36 months and then the BR is discharged of the debt completely.
I have to say it looks to me as if you won't see any money off him.
Was your claim through the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board?BSCno.87The only stupid question is an unasked oneLoving life as a Kernow Hippy0 -
I was under the impression that any debts owed due to a personal injury claim would not be discharged by the bankruptcy. That would mean that their liability to pay the compensation would continue and be unaffected.
The text here seems to suggest this (in particular the blue bit): http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/guidanceleaflets/bankruptcyend/bankruptcyend.htmWhat is the effect of the discharge?
Your debts - it is on discharge that you will be released (freed) from most debts that you incurred before the bankruptcy order.
The debts you are not freed from include:
• any money owed under family court proceedings for example, for maintenance or CSA payments or arising from any personal injury claims against you, unless the court directs otherwise.
• any court fines or debts arising from fraud or certain other crimes.
• debts you incur after the bankruptcy order.
• since 1 September 2004, all outstanding student loans. If you were made bankrupt before 1 September 2004 you may still have to repay your student loan. Clarification should be requested from the official receiver.
However, since there is very little info on the IS site regarding this I wouldn't like to say for certain one way or the other.
Have you informed their Official Receiver/Trustee of the liability for the claim?
I would also consider taking some legal advice regarding any continuing liability for the compensation. If it is still owed in full then don't let them wiggle out of it by claiming BR.Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB
IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed0 -
Ain't this board great!! There is always someone around the corner with greater experiance and a lifeline. Thanks Fermi.BSCno.87The only stupid question is an unasked oneLoving life as a Kernow Hippy0
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Yes - I agree with what fermi says - you MUST get into contact with his OR/Trustee as soon as possible, but it may be best to have a word with CAB, or a solicitor, because the OR/Trustee will be working in the interests of ALL creditors, and may not be willing to treat your claim separately.
Even if he remains liable, for the compensation payment, if the OR/trustee has already siezed his assetts, you could be in for a long battle.I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.
HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7
DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS0 -
Was he personally responsible for paying out, or is there an insurance company involved?
I'd have thought an accident at work was covered under insurance, who would pay the compensation... or was there more to it, like there being no insurance or the insurers saying the boss was personally responsible0 -
Thanks for such useful replies!!
Firstly, the boss initially told my partner to make a claim for compensation as he believed he was insured and would handle it through that. Then the boss discovered his insurance had lapsed, so threatened my partner not to continue.
My partner used one of those "no win, no fee" solicitors and the case was successful. The solicitors costs of the case were £26k, so the entire award was about £47k.
The solicitors told us they would be in touch once they'd heard from the official receiver but we've heard nothing yet. We have no idea whether we and the solicitors are the only creditors, or whether he still has any assets or income.
I will get in touch with the solicitors on Monday and chase them for some information. It was about 2 months ago they advised us that he'd gone down the bankruptcy route.
He is SUCH a stupid and arrogant man. If he'd just paid my partner £6k for lost earnings in the first place (which he could WELL afford) it would never have come to this!!! I'm apalled how much this will end up affecting his and his family's life, but he's caused us so much misery too...QUIT SMOKING 4/11/07 :j0 -
I hope your partner has no obligation to the 'No Win No Fee' Solicitor in the event of NOT getting paid - you wouldn't want to e saddled with his fees as well.
I am tempted to think that, due to the lack of insurance, then your partner's claim will not be treated any differently to that of any of the other creditors.I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.
HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7
DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS0 -
No rog, thank god we have absolutely no obligation for the solicitors fees. I was in a bit of a panic about that!
The boss ran his own building firm and my partner sub-contracted to him. It wasn't a big firm - just him taking on jobs and getting guys like my partner to do different jobs for him.
The solicitors didn't sue the firm - they sued him personally. All the paperwork is in his name.
The stupid thing is that we would have been happy with just a standing order of £100 a month or something.QUIT SMOKING 4/11/07 :j0 -
The solicitors didn't sue the firm - they sued him personally. All the paperwork is in his name.
In that case all the info I can find suggests that this is not a debt he can get out of via bankruptcy.
Your personal injury solicitor should be able to give you straight answer on this since it is not exactly an uncommon circumstance and there must be a large reservoir of case law already extant. Bug them if they don't.
Plus, get in touch with the other parties OR to clarify the position from their end.
I hope you get this sorted.Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB
IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed0 -
OK. I checked up on the Insolvency act 1986, and unless any subsequent legislation that I don't know about has amended this Act the the bits in red still hold.281. Effect of discharge(1) Subject as follows, where a bankrupt is discharged, the discharge releases him from all the bankruptcy debts, but has no effect -(a) on the functions (so far as they remain to be carried out) of the trustee of his estate, or(2) Discharge does not affect the right of any secured creditor of the bankrupt to enforce his security for the payment of a debt from which the bankrupt is released.
(b) on the operation, for the purposes of the carrying out of those functions, of the provisions of this Part;
and, in particular, discharge does not affect the right of any creditor of the bankrupt to prove in the bankruptcy for any debt from which the bankrupt is released.
(3) Discharge does not release the bankrupt from any bankruptcy debt which he incurred in respect of, or forbearance in respect of which was secured by means of, any fraud or fraudulent breach of trust to which he was a party.
(4) Discharge does not release the bankrupt from any liability in respect of a fine imposed for an offence or from any liability under a recognisance except, in the case of a penalty imposed for an offence under an enactment relating to the public revenue or of a recognisance, with the consent of the Treasury.
(5) Discharge does not, except to such extent and on such conditions as the court may direct, release the bankrupt from any bankruptcy debt which -(a) consists of a liability to pay damages for negligence, nuisance or breach of a statutory, contractual or other duty, being damages in respect of personal injuries to any person, or(6) Discharge does not release the bankrupt from such other bankruptcy debts, not being debts provable in his bankruptcy, as are prescribed.
(b) arises under any order made in family proceedings or in domestic proceedings.
(7) Discharge does not release any person other than the bankrupt from any liability (whether as partner or co-trustee of the bankrupt or otherwise) from which the bankrupt is released by the discharge, or from any liability as surety for the bankrupt or as a person in the nature of such a surety.
(8) In this section -"domestic proceedings" means domestic proceedings within the meaning of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980 and any proceedings which would be such proceedings but for section 65(1)(ii) of that Act (proceedings for variation of order for periodical payments);
"family proceedings" means the same as in Part V of the Matrimonial and Family Proceedings Act 1984;
"fine" means the same as in the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980; and
"personal injuries" includes death and any disease or other impairment of a person's physical or mental condition.
Good luck, and please tell us what happens.Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB
IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed0
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