I'm taking British Gas to court and I scared

libbyliberty · 18 July 2007 at 10:33PM

British Gas owe me almost £300, they issued me a refund in Dec 06 but the cheques never reached my bank account yet British Gas say they have been cashed. I have had no choice but to take them to court which is so stupid. My court date is August, what should I expect and what can I do to be ready and to win. Feel nervous and unprepared, could I lose and have to pay their costs ?

witchypoo · 19 July 2007 at 12:29AM

Wow that's a huge step - I assume they sent out cheques but something happened after taking them to bank? What does the bank have to say about it? If it were me and depending on the exact situation I would have threatened phoning energywatch - apparently every investigation by them costs BG £250 and they would obviously rather you didn't. I suggest speaking to either energywatch or the Citizen's Advice Bureau and if it would be possible to cancel the court date I would be inclined to do so. Sorry not much help!

Coupon-mad · 19 July 2007 at 12:37AM

British Gas can ask their Bank to confirm into which Bank Account the cheques were paid, it's easy enough for them to do.

I think go and see the CAB and ask them to help you contact British Gas again asking them to trace the cheque details. This will cost you nothing. Why go to court, surely you will incur costs unnecessarily?

Another option would be a Solicitor's letter to British Gas requesting them to investigate as it appears that their cheques were paid into the Bank Account of someone else. But that would cost you the Solicitor's letter costs, so I would certainly try the CAB first.

Cardew · 19 July 2007 at 7:50AM

Presumably you got the cheques? (you say cheques in your opening post).

If you took/sent them to the bank and they have indeed been cashed, the fault probably lies with the bank crediting them to the wrong person's account.

What steps have you taken with BG before going to court? I hope, for your sake, these steps were in writing and you are not intending to go to court relying on your version of telephone conversations??

It really is straightforward for BG and your bank to trace payment of these cheques, so I am very surprised it hasn't been resolved.

smallc_2 · 19 July 2007 at 8:21AM

My brother has had a recent esperience with Lloyds. He used their share dealing service and they sent him a cheque, which he never received. On asking the bank where it was they replied that the cheque had been paid into a Bank in Liverpool and withdrawn. (My brother doesn't live in Liverpool). They say that once the cheque left them they are not responsible and refuse to pay up. The police are not interested as it would be impossible to catch the culprits. Where does that leave my brother who never received the cheque in the first place and is now £8000 out of pocket??? Surely the bank has some responsibility

Cardew · 19 July 2007 at 10:04AM

Of course the police should be interested - it is theft, pure and simple.

Cheques cannot just go missing and be cashed with the bank abdicating reponsibility; it undermines the whole ethos of banking.

I suspect your brother hasn't got any such statement(once the cheque has left them -no responsibility etc) in writing from Lloyds.

The clear implication is they suspect your brother of attempting fraud.

Get Lloyds to put it in writing and just sue them.

Frankly, the tale does not sound plausible - unless there is something missing from your post.

Coupon-mad · 19 July 2007 at 4:20PM

smallc wrote: »

My brother has had a recent esperience with Lloyds. He used their share dealing service and they sent him a cheque, which he never received. On asking the bank where it was they replied that the cheque had been paid into a Bank in Liverpool and withdrawn. (My brother doesn't live in Liverpool). They say that once the cheque left them they are not responsible and refuse to pay up. The police are not interested as it would be impossible to catch the culprits. Where does that leave my brother who never received the cheque in the first place and is now £8000 out of pocket??? Surely the bank has some responsibility

I am fairly sure that the Bank in Liverpool that accepted the cheque for payment into the bank account will have to investigate, as it's possible they have allowed a cheque to be paid into an account in a different name (their error, they must deal with it).

But if the thief set up a Bank account in the correct name just to pay in the cheque that they had stolen, then the Bank that should investigate would be the branch where the thief banks, IYSWIM. There is an alleged fraudulent transaction into one of their customers' accounts, this suggests they may have accepted forged documentation as proof of ID when the account was opened. If that's the case, they will have to deal with it and involve the Police (their local Fraud Investigation Dept).

Your brother would need to address this is writing, if necessary by writing to (not emailing) the top bod at Lloyds to start with. If Lloyds continue to say it's not their fault - which it may not be - then they must at least pass the issue on to the Bank whose fault it is (and Lloyds will be able to trace those details easily).

In the long run he should get his money back IMHO but the investigations may take some time.

Cardew · 19 July 2007 at 5:42PM

A cheque can only paid into the account of the person named on the cheque.

So 'the thief' must have already set up an account in your brother's name, then stolen the cheque, and paid it into that account.

OR

Stolen the cheque, then set up an account in your brother's name(which takes months) using forged documentation to prove ID.

Mmmm

Coupon-mad · 19 July 2007 at 6:48PM

Cardew wrote: »

A cheque can only paid into the account of the person named on the cheque.

That's what many people think....until you work in a Bank. There is always the element of human error and cashiers have been known not to check, especially if several cheques are being paid in at once...it is certainly possible to pay in a cheque made payable to J Smith to an account in the name of M Spencer (or whatever) and it may not get noticed at all during processing as the cheques are soon separated from the paying-in slips.

Or, someone working in a Bank could have paid it in to their a/c or that of an accomplice (risky but also possible).

Cardew · 19 July 2007 at 8:19PM

Coupon-mad wrote: »

That's what many people think....until you work in a Bank. There is always the element of human error and cashiers have been known not to check, especially if several cheques are being paid in at once...it is certainly possible to pay in a cheque made payable to J Smith to an account in the name of M Spencer (or whatever) and it may not get noticed at all during processing as the cheques are soon separated from the paying-in slips.

Or, someone working in a Bank could have paid it in to their a/c or that of an accomplice (risky but also possible).

Obviously it is possible(by mistake) to have a cheque made payable to to the wrong account; but it really is pushing the boundaries of possibility to suggest someone can steal a cheque AND have rely on it being paid(by mistake) into his Liverpool bank.

However in that case the Liverpool bank would be held to account.

Question from Lloyds - Do you have an account for a Mr P Smith?(smallc's brother)

Liverpool Bank - er No.

Lloyds - well into whose account was the cheque for £6,000 made payable to Mr P Smith credited? (bear in mind that Lloyds are supposed to have told Mr P Smith that the cheque was cashed in a Liverpool Bank)

Obviously with a sophisticated 'inside job' it is possible to steal cheques and
misappropriate the funds; but that is a very serious crime.

If it was that easy to steal cheques and cash them, it would be a widespread practice.

Frankly I don’t believe Lloyds or the police would have said what has been reported.

smallc_2 · 19 July 2007 at 10:18PM

I can assure you it is all true.

The cheque was posted on a Friday (second class) and by Monday it had been paid into two separate accounts both in the same name as my brother. Letters from the bank tell us that the cheque was paid in by someone with the same name, but with a different date of birth and they opened the account using a driving licence and also a gas bill, but with a different address. They refuse to give us copies of this documentation as they say it is against the data protection act.

It was most definitely reported to the police, we have a crime number. The police have taken no action as they have stated that it would be impossible to catch the culprit. The bank who issued the cheque are trying to blame the receiving bank. The receiving bank say they acted in good faith. No one seems to be to blame. My brother is out of pocket.

This is not a new incident it happend in May 2006 and there are 30 something letters that have been written. We contacted the banking ombudsman but they just ruled in favour of the Bank saying that they acted in accordance with the Cheques Act 1957.

I just don't understand how a bank account set up fraudulently, can be classed as being under the protection of data protection act when it has quite clearly been set up to defraud another person. It does appear that the only person who has no rights is my brother who is being classed as the owner of the cheque. How he can he be the owner when it has never been in his possession is beyond me.

If Martin is reading this can you please offer some advice.

Thank you.

I'm taking British Gas to court and I scared

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