📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Damp/dry rot problem/insurance - help!

There is a fine and generous community in this forum. Wonder if any of you can help me.

I am not sure what is causing our problem under the floor of our front room in our bay fronted Victorian terraced house. I am left confused by the definition of what the problem actually is. Photos are attached here. I emailed these pictures to Strand preservations (the company that gave a 30 year guarantee to the developer who refurbished this house – and whom we bought the house from). Strand say it looks like dry rot. The developer that we bought the house from just over 2 years ago, thinks it is wood rotting fungi.

We noticed the problem after a year of being in the house – there were areas of black inside a cupboard on the internal part of the wall, where externally the rainwater drain runs, also the skirting boards split and the laminate floor had dark patches and was bulging . We made an insurance claim. The builder that did our insurance repair last year, said it was wet rot (incidently not covered by our policy – I suspect the contractor twisted the truth so that he could get the work, but I cannot prove this.) Anyway, the insurance contractor sub-contracted someone else and he replaced some timbers, treated them and made good the area internally. Perhaps he did not treat a wide enough area - as the problem has moved from the edge of the front room (where he treated) into the middle. We rang our insurance company, who said that it was regrettable that the contractor they instructed failed to tell us that the source of water ingress was likely to be a defective external drain from rainwater pipe. (This also may not be covered under our policy as it may be ‘wear and tear’) So, the subcontractor went ahead and fixed an internal problem, without dealing properly with the source externally. I have lodged a complaint with our insurers Liverpool Victoria on this today.

I strongly suspect, however, that something has not been treated thoroughly enough in the first place. Strand preservations were asked by the developer we bought this house from back in June 2004 to 'determine the presence & extent of problems relating to:

1 Rising Dampness

2 Wood boring insects/wood rotting fungi'

Strand highlighted in their report that they observed the following:

High external ground levels
Insufficient sub-floor ventilation
Areas of moisture ingress noted
Fungal decay evident

Strand then make these recommendations - to be done by the developer: (none of which, I suspect were done)

Reduce external ground levels or Sika tank earth retaining walls (ground level was not reduced - victorian mosiac tiles are/were undisturbed. Not sure if the Sika tanking was done)
Add more air vents (this was not done - there is still only one in the middle of the bay window, there are no other vents on either flank of the bay, nor are there vents at the back of the house allowing a through flow of air. DO I HAVE A CLAIM AGAINST THE COUNCIL FOR PASSING THIS WORK?)
All actual and potential sources of moisture ingress to be rectified (I do not know if this was ever done no-one has told me where this is/may be)
Suspect areas to be exposed to allow full inspection (the developer assures me this was all done - for the District Surveyor & for Strand - I can only take his word for it)
All decayed and defective timbers to be replaced using new pre-treated timbers to be fully isolated from the oversite/masonry (all I have been told by the developer is that Strand injected a vertical DPC - to ensure the horzontal DPC was not breached - and did a ‘standard spray’ of the timbers - again I have to take his word and assume he sprayed all wood beneath the floorboards). It looks from the paperwork, that this cost £600 + VAT. – I suspect this was insufficient and all done on the cheap, to get a guarantee to show the surveyor, but it is difficult to prove this.

If it is Dry Rot, Strand have told me it would take two/three years to develop to the level we have it at. We are getting them to come back – under heavy protest for free and only by saying that we’ll need someone to do this work – can’t they see it as quoting for the work? Ideally, ofcourse we would like them to do it under guarantee. But no-one thinks they will. They’ll just say they treated what they needed to at the time. They may even use the excuse that they could not access all areas during the development to have fully investigated any problems in that front room. We will see.

Finally, our mortgage lender appointed our surveyor, Colleys, and we had a home buyer's report carried out. - Maybe in hindsight, the scope of this was limited as by the time they looked, all floors were covered up. All it said about the area in question was: 'a large concrete surround is present to the rain water gulley to the front. I was led to believe by the builder that a vertical DPC has been fitted behind this to prevent breach of the horizontal DPC'. In the 'matters for conveyancer' section at the end of the report, it said 'I understand that damp proofing and timber treatment has been carried out and your conveyancer should make sure there are adequate guarantees'. WELL, THERE’S A GUARANTEE, BUT HARDLY ADEQUATE!

Who is accountable? The developer – has he done a quick fix, cover up job to get the property sold? I suspect he had cash flow problems for his other developments.
Strand Preservations – for not doing a thorough check, doing a quick and relatively cheap fix on behalf of the developer (whom he gives a fair amount of work to), who failed to identify or name the problem as dry rot two and a half years ago. Both of them?
The council – for allowing it to pass building regulations, when clearly there is sub-standard ventilation and checks have not been thorough enough?
The people that did our survey – it cost us £700 for them to say ‘the scope of our report is limited’ – too right it was – they leave it to the solicitor to ensure there is an adequate guarantee.
Our solicitor – yes, there is a guarantee, but it’s worthless. Turns out, because the developer did the finishing render, Strand did not complete the work – the developer did

Can anyone help?

Please.

Bojangles
«134567

Comments

  • hello,i've just read your post twice and its quite complex.Unfortunately i can't see where to access your photos.However just a couple of points(i will go over it again tomorrow to see if i can help).First -it sounds like dry rot-wet root doesent spread -it needs 60% moisture -and this will almost certainly be obviouse when the first timbers were replaced. D
  • contiued (sorry about that!)
    ...Dry rot only requires 23% moisture but it needs it fairly frequently -without moisture it will die. Reserch by the bre also shows that good old fresh air is one oof the best ways to stop it in its tracks.So if the problem was know about -all the timber should have been cut back or completely replaced and the whole area throughly treated. In addition the moisture problem should have been stopped (ie gutter problem etc) and the air flow should have been increased. When we do dry rot it our nightmare senario of it comming back so we make sure all these thing are done. we also amke itvery very clear that if you don't keep your pipe and gutter in good order or have any leaks that are not quickly rectified than your guranntee is VOID! How the hell you are going to pin this on anyone i don't know -but if i can help i will. -by the way, i can spell -just can't type fast when tired-night
  • Doozergirl
    Doozergirl Posts: 34,072 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Hi somefriendlyuk :)

    bojangles posted this thread twice and we've been chatting about it here, where you can also find the link to the pictures:
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=423341

    You obviously know what you're talking about, it would be great to see what you have to say when you see the pics!
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
  • Bojangles_3
    Bojangles_3 Posts: 118 Forumite
    Don't know how/why my thread? was divided, but I'm glad you know what you're doing. :beer:
  • hello-had a look at you photos and it seem like dry rot. Couldn't stop the photo from zooming in and out but i'm as sure as i can be without being there.If you have any more questions about solving the issue(i see your gettin another company in) i will be happy to help. I have 24 years experience in this type of work just in case your wondering.Good luck
  • I'm getting two local members of the Property Care Association in in two weeks time: Biocraft and Peter Cox. Have also got Strand to come back - with the insentive that they're quoting for the work.

    If you give me your private email address, I can send the pictures and they'll be still long enough for you to get a good look at them.

    I really am convinced that Strand &/or the developer did a quick fix on this place 2 and a half years ago - maybe because of money. It's going to be difficult to prove, but the developer did not comply with Strand's recommendations from the report and Strand went ahead and did some work anyway - one/both of them are at fault.

    I'll see what joy I have with PCA but will also ask my insurance company to challenge both parties - I have legal expenses cover up to £50000.

    I am getting worried about the rate at which this may spread. I really cannot afford to get it sorted financially at the moment and I'd be loathed to pay for a situation I think is caused by someone else.

    I realise I am going to have to get a CCTV camera down there to check if the drain is the source - but I am waiting on my insurance to do this as a gesture of goodwill given I have a complaint in with them for failing to point out to me last year, they thought there may have been a breach in the drain.

    I guess I play the waiting game. Am I missing something? Am I acting correctly and fast enough? I could try and borrow the money I suppose and then try and claim it back - in case it all takes too long and the problem accelerates.

    Your advice/expertise would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Bo
    bojanglessw16@googlemail.com
  • (I've no idea why this thread is split - was it me or MSE?)

    Anyway, Lambeth say they don't recommend anyone. Hmm. Whom do I trust?

    I'll wait until I hear back from somefriendlyuk...

    thanks again for your help.
  • Doozergirl
    Doozergirl Posts: 34,072 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Well, you've got three people oming out now, you can make your decision on who seems more trustworthy over price perhaps.

    I'd be trying to get this sorted quickly. Once you stop the ingress, it will still be months before it dries out properly. A CCTV survey doesn't cost much and if the results show something that your insurance company are responsible for, then you will be in a better position than you are now. Please stop waiting for people and just get this done; the longer you leave it, the worse it will get.

    I'm afraid I don't think it's worth persuing the developer or Strand on this one. Strand made recommendations that the developer did not adhere to (most importantly, finding out where the water was coming from) and your developer has been negligent, BUT it is entirely your own responsibilty to ensure that everything is sound before you buy the house. Not the news you want to hear, I appreciate, but you don't have a legal leg to stand on. :(
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
  • Bojangles_3
    Bojangles_3 Posts: 118 Forumite
    Ok yes, Legally, it's impossible, I can see that (I disagree) but I've been shafted and am livid! I'll write to the Housing Minister. The law has to change or a moral charge must be able to be made against someone who is in the property development business. Failing all this, I guess I can only go to the press or try and name and shame this developer.

    I'll also try and get Strand removed from the trade asociations BWPDA and Prperty Care Association.

    Sorry, don't mean to rant at you - just venting my anger and frustrated that I'm not in a financial position at the moment to pay for what may amount to £7000 or more of work. I'll see what the estimates are.

    Can you help and guide where I may look for someone to inspect the drain with a camera?

    Thanks
  • hello bojangles, get the estimates from both companies and strand and try to calm down a bit -Remember strand will only have done the work they were asked to do at the time so you may be being a little unfair to them and its worth giving them a second chance.They may also be more inclined to give you a good price and make bloody sure it won't shou up angin!!I would not metion insurace to any of them to start with as the price may well go up and if they don't pay -you may have to!. I'm not sure how big your room is where you have the out break but its unlikely to cost several thousand on what i have seen but -and heres the big but bit about dry rot -it like dark damp places -just where you cant see it of course so you never know untill you get into it.This is also the reason not many experts will tell you how fast it speads-it depends....is the usual answer! On the plus side, i have known insurance companies pay out on this so fingers crossed. If you leave the floor open and let the air get at it-it is unlikley to get any worse in the next couple of weeks. On another note -i'm not a great fan of the bwpda and your chances of any satisfaction through them but i won't say why in case i get sued!! I will send you my private e-mail and please feel free to ask anything.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.4K Banking & Borrowing
  • 252.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.3K Spending & Discounts
  • 243.4K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.6K Life & Family
  • 256.4K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.