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Former husband being a £%^&* over council house
gally56
Posts: 101 Forumite
A friend of mine husband walked out on her for another woman over 7 years ago. Her and her ex husband (Not divorced) had a joint tenancy on a council house that is actually in a private estate and a very nice house.
My friend managed to get a solicitor to start divorce proceedings and after a meetign between the solictors on both sides the husband agreed to put in witing that he no longer wished to be on the tenancy agreement on the house and in effect this should have made my firend the sole tenant in her house.
With the letter in hand she immediately went down to the council offices and handed the letter in only to be told that the law had changed recently and that for a person to remove him/her self from a joint tenancy on a council property it had to be down through the courts.
My friend then got her solicitor to get the court to issue the divorce proceedings with the the added issue of removing her husband of the tenancy but this has dragged on now for over 2 years as the husband has managed to avoid all methods to contact him.
Recently my friend has found she has cancer and is soon to go into a nursing home and wishes to end her tenancy but does not want her ex husband being able to just walk back into the house that she has be paying rent on soley for the last 7 years and would rather it went to a deserving family rather than her ex and his partner who has her own house but has as I have recently found out been in serious debt with several parties turning up to ask for monies owned. So her plan would be to move into my friends house sell her house and probably live off my friends husbands house and as he is a work shy oaf live rent free on his benefits.
Now for the final nail in the coffin my friend lives with her son who received a call from the local housing manager saying that she had received a call from a representative of my friends husband stating that he now wished to move into the house. Obviously the news that my friend was having to go into a nursing home has got back to him and his partner has seen this as a golden opportunity.
My friend has goen to the council to say that she wishes to end the tenancy and received the form today the question is once the tenacy has ended does that mean is goes back to the council (so to speak) and her husband is also no longer a tenant ie. the tenancy has been torn up and therefore he no longer has any right to enter that property. Because referring to his former request of wanting to be taken off the the tenacy which was not allowed and had to be down through the courts, then whats the difference with my friend filling in a Notice of Terminating form ?
Sorry for such a long winded letter and thank you for any advise you give
My friend managed to get a solicitor to start divorce proceedings and after a meetign between the solictors on both sides the husband agreed to put in witing that he no longer wished to be on the tenancy agreement on the house and in effect this should have made my firend the sole tenant in her house.
With the letter in hand she immediately went down to the council offices and handed the letter in only to be told that the law had changed recently and that for a person to remove him/her self from a joint tenancy on a council property it had to be down through the courts.
My friend then got her solicitor to get the court to issue the divorce proceedings with the the added issue of removing her husband of the tenancy but this has dragged on now for over 2 years as the husband has managed to avoid all methods to contact him.
Recently my friend has found she has cancer and is soon to go into a nursing home and wishes to end her tenancy but does not want her ex husband being able to just walk back into the house that she has be paying rent on soley for the last 7 years and would rather it went to a deserving family rather than her ex and his partner who has her own house but has as I have recently found out been in serious debt with several parties turning up to ask for monies owned. So her plan would be to move into my friends house sell her house and probably live off my friends husbands house and as he is a work shy oaf live rent free on his benefits.
Now for the final nail in the coffin my friend lives with her son who received a call from the local housing manager saying that she had received a call from a representative of my friends husband stating that he now wished to move into the house. Obviously the news that my friend was having to go into a nursing home has got back to him and his partner has seen this as a golden opportunity.
My friend has goen to the council to say that she wishes to end the tenancy and received the form today the question is once the tenacy has ended does that mean is goes back to the council (so to speak) and her husband is also no longer a tenant ie. the tenancy has been torn up and therefore he no longer has any right to enter that property. Because referring to his former request of wanting to be taken off the the tenacy which was not allowed and had to be down through the courts, then whats the difference with my friend filling in a Notice of Terminating form ?
Sorry for such a long winded letter and thank you for any advise you give
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Comments
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I suggest your friend speaks asap to Shelter or CAB who can inform her what the implications are of ending an assured tenancy in joint names or to run this query past the council. Sometimes the local council website or tenant handbook will provide information on this.
Where does the son want to live - is he interested in taking over the tenancy?
On the Shelter England website (look at their Scotland/Wales site if appropriate) it says that they may take into account the wishes of the person who wants to stay.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/relationship_breakdown/options_for_tenants/married_couples_and_civil_partners#2
your friend should also find out the implications of this when the other tenant has not lived in the property for some years - i.e. lives elsewhere and therefore has abandoned it.
On the Direct Gov site is says "If one of the joint tenants gives notice to the council to end the tenancy, this is likely to end the tenancy for both joint tenants. This would mean that the other joint tenant has no right to stay in the home."
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/SocialHousingAndCareHomes/CouncilHousing/DG_100225430 -
NTQ from one tenant ends the tenancy. Its called a McGrady notice.
The council could grant the husband another tenency but this would be in line with his housing need and is probably v unlikely.0 -
To further answer your question a joint tenancy can't be ended by the tenant's agreeing. You can't assign a secure tenancy.
You can
- ask one tenant to serve NTQ which ends the whole tenancy for both parties, however I would NEVER advise some-one to do this without an undertaking from the council that they will then offer them a sole tenancy (this is purely at the council's discretion)
- The tenancy can be transferred by court order under the family Law Act, divorce legislation or the Children's Act.
Your friend really needs housing advice. She may want to look at whether the council will agree to grant her the sole tenancy of the property and then assign to her son as a would -be successor (council may well not be keen on this option)0 -
Also, perhaps she should find out (if it looks like the husband is going to be awarded a sole tenancy) how she can seek a share of rent from the last 7 years from him and child support (if applicable).
There are many companies that will trace a missing person for a small fee (less than 100 pounds) for her to track him down and serve divorce papers on him. Even if he hides from the electoral register, his bank statements, mobile phone bill,etc, are obviously being sent somewhere.
Perhaps the housing officer would be kind enough to pass you on a correspondance address. I'm not very knowledgeable about the data protection act but sometimes organisations cannot get out of passing on information for reasons of privacy if civil proceedings are underway. Even if they can't/won't provide his contact details, perhaps they would be happy to pass on a message saying that if he doesn't give up his right to the tenancy, she will seek 50% of the rent for the last 7 years.
In fact, as he has a joint tenancy at that address, perhaps she can just serve the papers to him there? Might not be a valid address though.0 -
Unfortunately joint tenants are jointly and severally liable for rent, so I would be very surprised if she can seek a share of rent from the ex-husband.0
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What happens if your friend regains her health and wants to go home?I'm a Forum Ambassador on the housing, mortgages & student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.0
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???? Joint and several liability means that the other party in a contract can seek performance of the contract [ie payment] from any one or from all members of the other party.Unfortunately joint tenants are jointly and severally liable for rent, so I would be very surprised if she can seek a share of rent from the ex-husband.
I would be interested to know why you conclude that 'joint and several liability' excludes members of the joint and several party from making claims on each other. AIUI, the 'joint and several' formula only governs relations between the 2 primary parties to the contract and is irrelevant to governing relations within one party.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
Sounds like you friend is mainly acting out of spite by trying to bloke the husband from gaining access to the house. Realistically what does she lose by letting him have it?0
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Blacksheep1979 wrote: »Sounds like you friend is mainly acting out of spite by trying to bloke the husband from gaining access to the house. Realistically what does she lose by letting him have it?
Obviously a gentleman of sound argument right yes on the face of it it looks like she is doing this out of spite however her husband has lived with the same woman in her own private house which she has now got into arrears over so what does this women think oh I'll get my gullible fellah to muscle his way back into a house he has not paid rent or lived in for over 5 years and we can get him to claim housing benefits whilst i sell or rent out my own house.
Now do you think it's right that someone with no real housing worries should manipulate the system when a family in more need of that home could merit it.0 -
I suggest your friend speaks asap to Shelter or CAB who can inform her what the implications are of ending an assured tenancy in joint names or to run this query past the council. Sometimes the local council website or tenant handbook will provide information on this.
Where does the son want to live - is he interested in taking over the tenancy?
On the Shelter England website (look at their Scotland/Wales site if appropriate) it says that they may take into account the wishes of the person who wants to stay.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/relationship_breakdown/options_for_tenants/married_couples_and_civil_partners#2
your friend should also find out the implications of this when the other tenant has not lived in the property for some years - i.e. lives elsewhere and therefore has abandoned it.
On the Direct Gov site is says "If one of the joint tenants gives notice to the council to end the tenancy, this is likely to end the tenancy for both joint tenants. This would mean that the other joint tenant has no right to stay in the home."
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/SocialHousingAndCareHomes/CouncilHousing/DG_10022543
In regard to the son although he has lived there for well over 16 years he is not on the tenancy agreement therefore once the tenancy is ended he is effectively homeless he would love to stay on in the house but could not afford the rent so is now on the waiting list for a suitable accomodation (i.e 1 bed flat/house) in the same area as it is close for work0
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