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Agent hasn't carried out my wishes.... help!
Hopejack
Posts: 507 Forumite
Currently renting out our house and tenant is serving notice as we want to put the property on the market in Jan. This is long!
I've been to see the property and there are a couple of things I'm concerned about. We rent the property through an agent and the actual agency has changed hands 3 times in the time we've been renting it out. The last change (buy out) was about 18 months ago.
Issue 1 - tenant has removed or killed lawn which was laid in the garden. I have asked (as per tenancy agreement) that the garden be reinstated to what it was - it's currently covered in those awful wood chippings (and I suspect covered in dog pooh as they have a dog!). Tenant does not seem keen to have to do this (said they couldn't reseed in this weather!) and I think it's going to be a struggle to get it done. I've had a v rough quote of £400 ish for returfing (that was without measurements) and clearly as they did not ask for permission to basically dramatically alter garden, I'm not willing to pay it (or don't want to!). Agent is saying that we may have an issue proving they changed the garden and he'd have to check the inventory (which was set up by previous agent MD who was hopeless!). I have in my posession a hand written note by the tenant addressed to last MD saying that if the 'reseeding' they did some time ago to the garden did not work then they would returf on move out as I did put to him that I was concerned about what they'd done. Unfortunatley it is not dated but the fact it's addressed to the last MD does date it to some extent. I've told agent if they won't sort it then I'd like money taken out of deposit but he said it's not straight forward as a) we'd have to prove it and b) we'd have to get their agreement to take the money OR, it's a case of me paying and then trying to reclaim through the new Deposit scheme thingy!
Issue 2 - carpets are a mess as although they've had rugs down, they are in terrible condition esp the stairs. The carpets are around 9 years old but to be fair could easily be cleaned and would come up OK. I did ask the previous MD if he would ensure a clause was written into their contract to say due to dog, they had to get carpets professionally cleaned (and proof of receipt) when moving out. It now appears that this has not been done. Unfortunatley I did not see a copy of the tenancy agreement until recently as I didn't get a copy - never had them in the past either but just thought that was the way it worked. New MD has stated that he does have a written note from me on file stating I wanted this clause but it wasn't put in contract. Tenant is now saying they will vax but not professionally clean (it just states clean carpets on move out) and MD is saying we can't force her to do so? Is someone liable here? Again, MD is saying we can't take out of deposit as it's not in her contract and carpets are quite old so it wouldn't stand up in deposit dispute thing!
I myself rent and in the last few houses as we had a cat, we were told we had to professionally clean carpets due to infestation possible probs etc. We never disputed this :mad:
I'm so annoyed and am starting to feel like the agent couldn't care less tbh as he's losing the tenancy/income anyway.
Is there anything I can do or just effectively spend an extra possibly £700 ish that I don't have on getting the place sorted. I am going to have to decorate etc but I expected that to be fair.
Sorry this is long - I just wish they'd looked after my house the way I've looked after the ones I've lived in. Does renting give you the right to wreck people's property and not want to put it back!!!? :mad:
I've been to see the property and there are a couple of things I'm concerned about. We rent the property through an agent and the actual agency has changed hands 3 times in the time we've been renting it out. The last change (buy out) was about 18 months ago.
Issue 1 - tenant has removed or killed lawn which was laid in the garden. I have asked (as per tenancy agreement) that the garden be reinstated to what it was - it's currently covered in those awful wood chippings (and I suspect covered in dog pooh as they have a dog!). Tenant does not seem keen to have to do this (said they couldn't reseed in this weather!) and I think it's going to be a struggle to get it done. I've had a v rough quote of £400 ish for returfing (that was without measurements) and clearly as they did not ask for permission to basically dramatically alter garden, I'm not willing to pay it (or don't want to!). Agent is saying that we may have an issue proving they changed the garden and he'd have to check the inventory (which was set up by previous agent MD who was hopeless!). I have in my posession a hand written note by the tenant addressed to last MD saying that if the 'reseeding' they did some time ago to the garden did not work then they would returf on move out as I did put to him that I was concerned about what they'd done. Unfortunatley it is not dated but the fact it's addressed to the last MD does date it to some extent. I've told agent if they won't sort it then I'd like money taken out of deposit but he said it's not straight forward as a) we'd have to prove it and b) we'd have to get their agreement to take the money OR, it's a case of me paying and then trying to reclaim through the new Deposit scheme thingy!
Issue 2 - carpets are a mess as although they've had rugs down, they are in terrible condition esp the stairs. The carpets are around 9 years old but to be fair could easily be cleaned and would come up OK. I did ask the previous MD if he would ensure a clause was written into their contract to say due to dog, they had to get carpets professionally cleaned (and proof of receipt) when moving out. It now appears that this has not been done. Unfortunatley I did not see a copy of the tenancy agreement until recently as I didn't get a copy - never had them in the past either but just thought that was the way it worked. New MD has stated that he does have a written note from me on file stating I wanted this clause but it wasn't put in contract. Tenant is now saying they will vax but not professionally clean (it just states clean carpets on move out) and MD is saying we can't force her to do so? Is someone liable here? Again, MD is saying we can't take out of deposit as it's not in her contract and carpets are quite old so it wouldn't stand up in deposit dispute thing!
I myself rent and in the last few houses as we had a cat, we were told we had to professionally clean carpets due to infestation possible probs etc. We never disputed this :mad:
I'm so annoyed and am starting to feel like the agent couldn't care less tbh as he's losing the tenancy/income anyway.
Is there anything I can do or just effectively spend an extra possibly £700 ish that I don't have on getting the place sorted. I am going to have to decorate etc but I expected that to be fair.
Sorry this is long - I just wish they'd looked after my house the way I've looked after the ones I've lived in. Does renting give you the right to wreck people's property and not want to put it back!!!? :mad:
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Comments
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The only thing I can comment on is the carpet cleaning. As far as I know a LL cannot demand a tenant gets carpets professionally cleaned, only to a professional standard. Shelter is a good source for checking things like that0
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Thanks - will give them a call. Actually, we've always had in our tenancy agreements that we have to get carpets professionally cleaned due to having a cat/pet. Currently, it states that we have to and we don't even have a pet so I think that is a bit much!0
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Just spoken to Shelter and they won't deal with me as I'm a landlord as well as a tenant!!!0
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No, it's not because you're a LL as well as a T, it's because your query relates specifically to your rentals business. Shelter is a housing charity : their stated charitable aims are that they "help people find and keep a home, and campaign for decent housing for all."Just spoken to Shelter and they won't deal with me as I'm a landlord as well as a tenant!!!
Your sources of info as a LL should be national/local LL associations or LLlaw etc ( although there is nothing to stop you reading the Shelter website on more general issues.)
Referring to tenancy deposit schemes as the "tenancy deposit thingy" and seemingly not knowing how they operate shows that you did very little research before letting your property out.
If you have clear evidence of how the garden was at the start of the tenancy, plus confirmation from the T that he would re-turf, then you can propose a deduction to cover the reasonable costs of restoring the garden.
If you/your LA didn't ensure that a suitable "post-animal-consent" cleaning clause was in place, and you have no evidence that the carpets were cleaned to a professional standard at the start of the tenancy, then you are unlikely to succeed in getting the T to clean them to that standard. You can only ask for the property to be returned in the same condition as when let "save for fair wear and tear". FW&T does not include dirt or damage t but I'd say that 9 years in a rental property is pretty good going for carpets. If you wanted to claim for any specific damage to the carpets then the age they were at the start of the tenancy, the quality they were and the length of the tenancy would all be used to determine a percentage to be allocated to either party's expense.
Your own LL can , as already stated, only ask you to clean the carpets to a professional standard and then only if they can show that the carpets had been in that condition at the start.Hopejack wrote:Actually, we've always had in our tenancy agreements that we have to get carpets professionally cleaned due to having a cat/pet. Currently, it states that we have to and we don't even have a pet so I think that is a bit much...0 -
Why have you been to see the house, was this an inspection prearranged (in writing) with the tenant? If not be aware that you cannot simply turn up at the property unannounced, the tenant has the right to quiet enjoyment of the property.Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0
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tbs - I am aware of how the deposit scheme works but as it's a relatively new scheme I wasn't up to scratch with it all - as I said, I am a tenant myself so am aware of it from my own pov - if you see I have mentioned about not being able to just 'take' money of out deposit like LLs could in the past and having to file dispute if tenant isn't in agreement to money required to reinstate etc. I appreciate this is to protect tenants from unscrupulous LLs but to be fair, in this case, at least for the garden, I believe I am just. I am aware I will need to get quotes as well. I was merely typing as I thought and could not 'think' of the correct word for the scheme at the time!
I rang Shelter as I took the advice of the poster above. Clearly, it wasn't the correct avenue and I am now exploring other avenues of research/advice. ETA - they told me straight they wouldn't give me advice as I am a landlord.... That is a direct quote btw.
FF - it was a periodic inspection which I went along to - tenant was given plenty of notice and is aware that I am wanting to sell property so was happy for me to be there to see what is going to need doing. I am well within my rights to do so. They have been given 3 years uninterrupted living in the house with the periodic inspection and that is it. I'm hardly not allowing them quiet enjoyment! Just so they can continue to wreck the place
What really annoys me is that tenants seem to have so many rights these days and LLs hardly any even if the tenant does wreck your property! Once you mention you are a LL, you are given scorned advice and are treated like some scumbag!!
I am onto the agent but as I said already, I fear they haven't been that useful and having lived so far away from the property for the past few years due to work, I have had to rely on them to do their job. I'm not sure how much more I could have done about asking for a professional cleaning clause being put into the tenancy contract? I even have it in writing that I wanted this done and on emails too. The fact it was not done, is not my fault, I, afterall, was paying that agent to do a job. I perhaps should have checked the agreement but as agreements have never been sent to me, I didn't think any different. Also, sending an agreement to me once it had been signed, without the clause added, would not have made much difference!0 -
tbs - I am aware of how the deposit scheme works but as it's a relatively new scheme I wasn't up to scratch with it all - as I said, I am a tenant myself so am aware of it from my own pov - if you see I have mentioned about not being able to just 'take' money of out deposit like LLs could in the past and having to file dispute if tenant isn't in agreement to money required to reinstate etc. I appreciate this is to protect tenants from unscrupulous LLs but to be fair, in this case, at least for the garden, I believe I am just. I am aware I will need to get quotes as well. I was merely typing as I thought and could not 'think' of the correct word for the scheme at the time!
FF - it was a periodic inspection which I went along to - tenant was given plenty of notice and is aware that I am wanting to sell property so was happy for me to be there to see what is going to need doing. I am well within my rights to do so. They have been given 3 years uninterrupted living in the house with the periodic inspection and that is it. I'm hardly not allowing them quiet enjoyment! Just so they can continue to wreck the place
What really annoys me is that tenants seem to have so many rights these days and LLs hardly any even if the tenant does wreck your property! Once you mention you are a LL, you are given scorned advice and are treated like some scumbag!!
Actually several of the regulars on here are professional landlords, I myself have been an (amateur) landlord and am now an owner-occupier, so I have no axe to grind on behalf of the tenant. You are within your rights to attend a periodic inspection, but many newbies think it is acceptable to randomly turn up at the property. We may be harsh but we are trying to do you a favour by ensuring you remain on the right side of the law at all times: at the end of the day this is your business but it is the tenant's home.
As a landlord you have as many rights as the tenant does, it is your responsibility to find out what these are and not just delegate to rubbish letting agents. To all intents and purposes the letting agent IS the same entity as the landlord, so their failings are your failings. The TDS is hardly new (two and a half years!) and is there for the protection of both parties, it is a very straightforward system if used properly. Unfortunately if you did not protect yourself with a proper inventory you may need to chalk up your losses to experience: why not join a landlord's association and attend a few workshops?Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0 -
When renting our property we asked for a clause to be added that we would get the carpets cleaned professionally when we left so that we could have a dog.
We never signed a new agreement, but we kept our end of the deal by getting them cleaned.Annual Grocery Budget £364.00/£1500
Debt payments 2012 £433.270 -
There is a proper inventory - at least that was done correctly. I hope to be out of the 'business' once I sell the property - never going down the rental route again. I hope to own and live in my own home - it's only due to DH's work that we haven't been able to do so for the last few years
In fairness, when you live 100+ miles away and employ an agent to look after things for you, you do expect them to do so - that is why you employ them. I'm not talking legalities here as ultimately that is the LL responsibility but telling the LL the truth about the condition of the property (when you cannot access yourself) and ensuring your wishes are carried out in contracts etc is simple really.
I wish more tenants were like ourselves and looked after the place they live in!0 -
Whatever the failings of various flavours of Letting Agent, they are your agents. Acting on your behalf.
If you fail to monitor that they are acting in your interests, the buck stops with you.
Trying to alter/revise/update contracts, to better suit your purposes, late in the day is not fair on the tenant, whatever they have done differently from other contracts you might have experienced.
Rug Doctor will do a decent job with carpets. Don't know if Vax is as good.
Re the garden, if you do not have a "don't do anything without Landlords permission in writing" clause, then its going to be difficult to do more than compromise over what you each think the area will cost in turf.
"Unfortunatley I did not see a copy of the tenancy agreement until recently as I didn't get a copy"
"The fact it was not done, is not my fault, I, afterall, was paying that agent to do a job. I perhaps should have checked the agreement but as agreements have never been sent to me, I didn't think any different."
- you will have to pursue the agent, depending on the contract you have with them.
- it is supposed to be signed by Tenant and Landlord. Did you not sign it? Is it even valid, at all, because of this?
I don't know what sanctions there may be for an late signed/unsigned tenancy agreement.
Think you need to visit LandlordZone and other sites to educate yourself on how to be a Landlord, if you intend to continue - for everyones sake.0
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