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[Iangrayson]

Has anyone been able to actual get any of these tickets? I am trying to arrange for 2 adults and 3 children to travel to London for a couple of days in July. Received the special offer flyer today from school and yet the site seems to show no availability for any of the trains that I am trying to get. Anybody know of tricks or a search technique? ???

I commute from Sheffield to Wakefield to work each day and by buying a South Yorkshire TravelMaster ticket together with a season ticket between Moorthorpe and Wakefield is costing me £107.95 per month instead of the full season ticket price of £133.50 between Sheffield and Wakefield. This combination of ticket is valid on a through train which does not call at Moorthorpe station (e.g. 0712 Virgin Train) as permitted under Condition 17(c) of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, which says:

17. A combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets to travel on one train journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are zonal tickets;
(b) the train you are on calls at the station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a season ticket, which for this purpose does not include season tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority, and the other ticket(s) is/are not. You must comply with any restriction of use to a particular Train Company's trains shown on the tickets (see Condition 10).

I have met a number of other regular passengers travelling from Sheffield (or Dronfield and Chesterfield) to Leeds each day and I would strongly advise them to do the same.

South Yorkshire Zone TravelMaster ticket: £63.50 per month;
One Month season ticket between Moorthorpe and Leeds: £72.20 per month;
Making it £135.70 per month altogether.

One full season ticket between Sheffield and Leeds: £151.00 per month.

By buying a combination of tickets as above, a saving of £15.30 per month can be made, plus the cost of all public transport to and from Sheffield station as the TravelMaster ticket is valid on all buses and trams as well whilst the season ticket between Sheffield and Leeds is valid on trains only, and the cost of a FirstMonth ticket on the bus will cost an additional £39 per month.

This combination of tickets satisfy condition 17(c) because the Moorthorpe to Leeds season ticket is the season ticket required and the South Yorkshire TravelMaster ticket is the 'other' ticket when the condition says clearly that it is not to be regarded as a season ticket for this purpose.

My other favourite ticket is the Derbyshire Wayfarer ticket when it can be used in conjuction with a Cheap Day Return ticket from Burton on Trent for travel to Birmingham.

Derbyshire Wayfarer - valid between Sheffield and Burton on Trent: £7.50 (includes a free child place!)

Cheap Day Return from Burton on Trent to Birmingham: £5.90 - making it £13.40 in total.

A full saver return between Sheffield and Birmingham costs a wapping £27.30 - plus half fare for a child if you are taking one.

By buying a combination of ticket as above, a saving of at least £13.90 can be made just for one day out! However, in this case, the trains that you travel must call at Burton on Trent station as neither ticket is a season ticket and so condition 17(b) applies.

[woodkitten]

hi i am looking to book a return apex train ticket from cardiff to gatwick anyone got any help on how to get in there first when they are released, as i keep tel, and they keep telling me to check again next friday etc, this been going on for weeks ??? ??? last year i did it like this and missed them at the end

[MMMIARMW]

check out this website

http://www.thetrainline.com/default...._2004721141249

It's easy to check train times and book tickets. Key in a journey and it will show whether Apex tickets are available.

I have used this excellent service quite a few times to buy both Apex and non- Apex tickets - they arrive next day.

[woodkitten]

Thanks for the help i have ordered my tickets now but had to keep checking daily to see if the APEX returns had come on offer. What i do not understand is how when i telephoned the great western ticket line they told me they were not available yet, for the return part of my trip the 2nd october and to try again in a few weeks later that day i tried again with ticket line and there they were so booked straight away ;D £30 return Cardiff- gatwick. SO THANKS AGAIN FOR THE HELP
CHEERS woodkitten

Hello there - I suggested the Trainline link but not sure how I came to have name of MMM whatever - must have leant on the keyboard!

I am delighted you got your apex tickets from Trainline - as I said I have used them a couple of times with excellent results. I find it's much quicker to buy on-line.

I'm pleased you saved money!

[pipmadams]

If you travel by train and regularly buy a season (weekly/ monthly) ticket, you could be wasting money. Season tickets include weekends, so if you are only travelling on weekdays you could be paying for eight journeys a month that you don't use. Consider buying a return ticket each day- the hassle is worth it: I saved £100 a month from Guildford to Basingstoke by spurning the season tickets.

[AP]

You might be right if you only travel during off-peak hours, i.e. with the outward journey on a train scheduled to depart after 9.30am when you will be able to get a Cheap Day Return instead of a Standard Day Return ticket.

A 7-Day season ticket is usually priced at 4 times the price of a Standard Day Return ticket, so you will still save money even if you only travel Monday to Friday.

A one-month season ticket is priced at 3.84 times the price of a 7-Day season ticket with an annual (12-Month) season ticket priced at 40 times the 7-Day ticket which give even bigger discounts.

As long as the duration of the season ticket is at least one month, you can actually have it for 1 Month and 1 Day, 1 Month and 2 Days, ... , or even 1 Month and 9 Days, etc., with each additional day calculated at 1/29.5 of the price of the one-month season ticket. I always make use of these extra days on top of my one-month season ticket so that it finishes on a Friday and I don't have to start another one until the Monday after.

For long distance journeys or where a journey crosses the boundary of two counties, consider buying the tickets separately for the journey of each county. The cost of the tickets together may add up to less than the price of one through ticket. You are allowed to travel on through trains which does not stop at the station where you change from one ticket to another as long as one of the tickets is a season ticket and the other is not. This is specifically permitted under Condition 17(c) of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

[pin]

BTW a yearly season ticket in London (well for me anyway) you pay for 11 months and one month is free, also most train operators are offering a 5% discount on renewals.

[Chris_Powell]

Remember also if you are going to have time off to schedule any tickets to include this - I used to have a card when at college and offest higher weekly prices against holidays taken - most people I knew just paid for month at a time or yearly not thinking they would not be using it for about on third of the time

Good idea about buying extra days

[AP]

The fact that an annual season ticket is priced at 40 times a 7-Day one already takes into account people have to go on holidays some time during the year, plus all the bank holidays, sick leave, etc. You can also pay by monthly direct debit if you wish.

Most people will just buy one-month at the time when I find that the extra days you can add on for it to end on a Friday and doesn't have to start again until the Tuesday after a bank holiday extremely valuable.

[dplumb]

I've held an annual all zones season ticket from Potters Bar to London for about the last 15 years. My daily journey (probably like most other commuters) is to zone 1 or 2 station and I hardly if ever use anything else in zones 3-6. If I do, it's likely business travel which I could claim back if I didn't already have a valid ticket.

It is permissible within the rail T&C's to buy two (cheaper) season tickets to cover this journey; one a point to point NR ticket from Potters Bar to Finsbury Park (which is in Z2) and then a Z12 travelcard. The cost of these combined tickets is £375 a year cheaper than the all zones would be. I believe you could also buy a season to R12 from the station but in my case I have upgraded to Oyster. Anyway, whenever they quote prices, it's always just say "all zones" or "london terminals" and I've never questioned whether there was a different way of doing this.

Since I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times in the year I need anything in the outer zones (and if the train isn't running then the tube will accept tickets anyway) this is what I've renewed this year. Oh and now there is only one bus zone across London, this Z12 ticket works all the buses too. That £375 would cover a lot of travelling out of my normal pattern.

Here's a good web site to check out season ticket prices (use a trainline.com login if you have one). It is run by South West Trains but you can price (and buy) any TOCs annual tickets.

Caveats!
1. NR conditions of carriage rule 17 specify that for this to be valid, the train must stop at the station where the tickets change over. In my case if I chose to take a slower train I could save more by buying the ticket to zone 3 and then a Z123 travelcard, but some trains don't stop there. All trains stop at Finsbury Park.
2. If you would get a discount on your ticket because of poor charter performance, then you only get this discount if you renew for an identical ticket
3. It doens't work out cheaper for all stations.
4. Charter discounts are given on the total cost of the ticket, whereas after doing this you'll only get the discount on the rail portion, not the zonal portion.
5. Check all valid permutations, i.e. Welham Green to Oakleigh Park and a Z1-4 is more versatile and cheaper still.

e.g.
Potters Bar save £375 £896+£808=£1704 normally £2080
Welham Green save £524, £628(to Oakleigh Park)+£1168(Z1-4)=£1796 normally £2320
Hatfield save £388, £1424+£808=£2132 normally £2520
Knebworth save £332, £1800+£808=£2608 normally £2940

I have no idea how well this would work on other lines.

I'm just disappointed I've travelled so long with a ticket I never needed. The saving over the years is thousands.

I won't claim originality in this idea, I saw it on Usenet somewhere, but there seems to have been little exposure elsewhere.

[Glad]

welcome to the site and what a great 1st post ;D

[dplumb]

welcome to the site and what a great 1st post !;D

Why thank you ... I've lurked a while but never had anything to contribute before!

[AP]

If you look carefully at Condition 17(c) of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, it means that as long as you have one rail season ticket with one (or more) other tickets, you can travel on through trains which do not stop at the station that you change from one train to another. As you only have to satisfy one of 17(a), (b) or (c), Condition 17(b) will not apply if you have already satisfied Condition 17(c).

Your London Zones ticket is not classed as a season ticket for the purpose of this section, only rail season tickets do. So if you get a rail season ticket from Potters Bar to Finsbury's Park and then a London Zones ticket for the rest of your journey, you can travel on trains which do not stop at Finsbury's Park station, as permitted by Condition 17(c) of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

I travel from Sheffield to Wakefield on the train each day and I get the South Yorkshire TravelMaster ticket (the South Yorkshire equivalent of your London Zones ticket) with a rail season ticket from Moorthorpe (boundary station for S Yorks/W Yorks) to Wakefield, and I have been using the Virgin Trains non-stop service between Sheffield and Wakefield which does not stop at Moorthorpe station without any problems.

South Yorkshire TravelMaster ticket - £63.75 per month (also includes travel on all buses and trams).
Moorthorpe to Wakefield season ticket - £49.20 per month.
Total = £112.95 per month.

Sheffield to Wakefield season ticket - £133.60 per month (Trains only, no bus or trams!)

Minimum savings for buying 2 tickets - £20.65 per month + bus fares.

[dplumb]

Your London Zones ticket is not classed as a season ticket for the purpose of this section
Now that is extremely interesting, thank you!! I assumed the travelcard was still a season, though LU only refer to them as "travelcard periods" and the word "season" is not mentioned anywhere.

I picked Finsbury Park because all of my trains do stop there, but I could gain a couple of extra zones and save a few more quid by buying a short point to point and an all zones travelcard (I am literally only a mile or so outside zone 6).

Fares & ticketing options are complex though, TFL propose new zones out to Stevenage to iron out London fares.

In addition, RPI's aren't sure of, e.g. on WAGN it is permissible to travel in 1st class with a STD ticket if the train is only advertised as STD in the timetable. I felt trying my luck too far was not worth the hassle, although I wouldn't turn down the extra zones.

I'm done for this year and very happy with the saving made already but will look at that next year, thank you!

[Savvy_Sue]

Yup, your tip doesn't just apply to London. I know there were savings to be made for people commuting from Guildford to Basingstoke by buying your ticket to a different station (further out) but I don't know exactly how it worked and whether clause 17 subsection z {paragraph 99} still applies. ;D

[cfz1]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...416530,00.html

[islandman]

Thanks for that information which I have printed off and intend giving to a relative who recently grumbled about the fare from Peterborough to Birmingham.

My "dumb" question is "am I right in thinking that you ask for the two seperate return tickets from your departure station?".

My second not so dumb question is, "how do you set about deciding which of what could be many stations on route, do you request the return section to be effective from?"
Islandman

[AP]

There is another article here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...416844,00.html
giving a few illustrations on how to save money by buying multiple tickets for one train journey.

I am particularly impressed by the family in Exeter travelling First Class return to London saving £211.90 by buying an Annual Season Ticket between Ryde Esplanade and Ryde St John's Road (in Isle of Wight!) beforehand.

ATOC said that ticket clerks did not always advise passengers of the cheapest deal because it would take too long was not entirely true. I would say that these people simply would not know the nitty gritty of every aspect of the entire ticketing system - when obviously extensive research needs to be done to come up with such a scheme in the abovementioned article to save this amount of money for the family in Exeter.