Out of the blue! Elec bill for £1595! Legal position?

TonyB · 10 April 2006 at 7:22PM

Hi,
In 2001 when the market for suppliers was opened I transferred my then business account from YEB to NPower. At that time they would not accept residential accounts, so I transferred my home a/c to another supplier & promptly got on with life. I paid Npower (from separate meters in outbuildings) as & when billed & letting the man into the house to read my domestic meter whenever asked.
After a couple of years I sold the business but I continue to live at the same address, & am still having regular meter readings.
It did not ocur to me until fairly recently that I have not received any bills for domestic elctricity since I transfered & anyway I did not know to whom I had transferred!!!! So No bills since March, wait for it -- 2001

I was informed some time last year that there were millions of people like me who had been "Lost" on computers & that it was likely that any future demands could be ignored with liability to pay only for the last full years supply.

It would seem that Energywatch has taken the matter of BAD BILLING to the Office of fair trading, so it seems to be a fairly common problem as one ends up with a possible debt situation which cannot, through no fault of ones own, be settled.

I appreciate that I have used the power and should be morally obliged to pay, which I will if it proves I have to.

However if I DON'T need to pay it all then why should I?

Comments & advice most welcome !!!!!!!!!!!

TonyB

oldwiring · 10 April 2006 at 7:36PM

Might be a good idea to consult CAB and Energywatch for opinions, surely

cdon · 10 April 2006 at 8:59PM

I think they have upto six years to chase you for the money which is what they have now done. You can ask to pay it in installments.

Not being funny, but what did you do with the money that would have paid for the bills? With all the news about prices increases for the last 3 years did you not find it odd that you werent paying anything for 5 years?

Cardew · 11 April 2006 at 1:59AM

Whist not making any moral judgement, I cannot think that legally you have any case at all. I would also dispute that it is "through no fault of one's own" the debt situation has arisen.

There is also the argument that any bad debt, as in many a business, is eventually shared amongst all the other customers.

I would think however you have a very strong case for negotiating a sizable reduction in your debt. It will probably be cheaper for them to settle for a percentage of their money.

TonyB · 11 April 2006 at 2:31PM

"I haven’t had a bill for ages – do I still have to pay?
Consumers are legally bound to pay for their utilities. However, the Limitations Act 1980 prevents charges being recovered if the electricity or gas was used more than six years ago. In Scotland this period is five years.

Suppliers should at least offer a payment plan that allows you to repay any debt over the same length of time that it has built up. In other words, if you have not had a bill from your supplier for three years then, when a bill does finally appear, you should be able to spread the repayments over three years. However, if you accept a payment plan then you will not be able to change your supplier until you have cleared the outstanding debt.

However, as a result of the ‘super-complaint’ submitted by energywatch in April 2005 to the energy regulator, Ofgem (see below), energy companies have been told that, as of July 2006, they should no longer bill for any energy used by consumers more than two years previously where the company themselves has failed to provide a bill. As of July 2007, energy companies will be expected not to bill for any amount that dates back longer than a year"

Mmmmmm!

A further point is that I never received any form of acknowledgement from my new supplier with terms & conditions etc. does this mean no actual contract exists???

TonyB · 15 April 2006 at 4:59PM

Further Progress!
I have spoken to 'energywatch' & they advise in first instance to try to make a satisfactory arrangement with Scottishpower.
On speaking to them I was offered a deferred period to repay over 3 years which unfortunatley Is an impossible target. I told this to the girl who is refering the matter to her manager. I await further contact.
TonyB

clark1982 · 15 April 2006 at 5:08PM

you must of knew that you were not paying for the services, or did you think that you had just got off with it? I'm sure if I had no direct debit being taken, and I wasn't paing any bills, then alarm bells would start to ring...

Morseman · 16 April 2006 at 2:47AM

The legal possition has almost always been that, if you used the energy then you are liable to pay for it.

There are moves to reducing the time when a Supplier can claw back unbilled energy use, but it has not been finalised yet, so I'm afraid that, even though they 'lost' your account, you are still liable to pay for the energy that you used.

You have to imagine saying to a Judge "Well, I did use the energy but, as I had not received a bill, I did not realise that I owed the money" it is unlikely to be looked upon in a good light!

If, however, you had been trying over the time to get the Supplier to send a bill, and had letters saying that you did not owe anything, that might help your case. However, from what you say, you didn't do anything like that, so you can't claim that you tried to get the Supplier to send a bill. You just forgot about it.

If it were to go to court, the Suppliers' lawyer will probably want to make a case that you knew you owed the money, but kept quiet in the hope that no one ever caught up with the arrears. Lawyers are like that, they have nasty minds and are being paid lots of money to prove that you owe their client lots of money, so they don't care that the Supplier messed up!

Sorry to say it, but I don't think you have much of a chance of not paying the bill.

Morseman · 16 April 2006 at 2:59AM

TonyB wrote:

A further point is that I never received any form of acknowledgement from my new supplier with terms & conditions etc. does this mean no actual contract exists???

I would not go that route, if I were you!

If no contract exists, and you continue to take energy, then you go onto a default tariff which is a higher rate than a 'proper' tariff payable to the last known Supplier. You will be deemed to have a contract because you continued to use energy. Like most contract law, a deemed contract is in place when goods and services are 'consumed' but the parties have not yet formally signed a contract. In many cases, companies will head off this situation by signing a 'heads of agreement' document which says that they agree that a contract *will* be signed, but goods and services can be delivered and consumed in the mean time.

In your case, the deemed contract is unlikely to favour you!

The next thing that is likely to happen is that you get cut off until you sign a new agreement, but you wont be allowed to move to a new Supplier untill you pay the unpaid energy bill.

Please, you really, really, do not want to go down this route! It looks good, from your idea of what a contract means, until the consequencies hit.

TonyB · 22 April 2006 at 2:04PM

Quote Cardew:- "I would think however you have a very strong case for negotiating a sizable reduction in your debt. It will probably be cheaper for them to settle for a percentage of their money."

Took your advice & after a bit of haggling (negotiating!!) the very capable young man @ ScottishPower acknowledged the fact that the situation had in my case & many others arisen through no fault of our own & offered a 30% reduction if I settled imediatelly. So a saving of £500 was made & all appear to be happy.

Once again, thanks for your solid advice & you too Morseman.

TonyB

Dora_the_Explorer_5 · 22 April 2006 at 3:06PM

Blimey - no wonder my electric bill keeps going up, didn't realise it was to cover those who manage to negotiate a 30% discount on their useage. Sorry Tony, you used it - you knew it wasn't free.

Out of the blue! Elec bill for £1595! Legal position?

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