Rent Paid in Advance to Letting Agent, then I was asked to leave - am I owed Money?

chasingamy · 9 July 2008 at 7:44PM

[FONT=&quot]Hi,

I am hoping someone can offer me some advice on what has happened to me. I started renting a property in July 07 and I signed a 6 month short hold tenancy agreement. After the 6 months I agreed to rent the property on a month by month basis and no new agreement was signed. I was told by my letting agent (in a phone call, nothing was given to me in writing he said he would but I never received anything) that I needed to vacate the property I was in as the owner needed to move back in. I received the phone call on Friday 25th April 08, and I told the letting agent on 30th April that I had found another house to live in and I was in the process of moving out of the house and was cleaning it as I moved. Another thing you need to know is that in January 2008 I paid £3300 for rent in advance which covered me up to July 8th 2008.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
On 7th May 08 I told the letting agent I had moved out completely and I gave him the final meter readings. We then met up at the house on the 9th May to finalise the termination of the tenancy and to look at the house (the inventory etc). He never said anything was wrong apart from he thought some damage had been done to the skirting boards in one the bedrooms. I have to admit I had never noticed the damage before and he thought a knife had sliced into them. I paid for carpets to be fitted in the hallways, stairs and landings and that bedroom, but I am positive they cut the carpets outside down to size and then fitted them. I still never noticed the damage and I am not sure whether it was there when I moved in or not.

I had also painted the main bedroom as there were six holes in the wall which I never did, and I showed them to the letting agent when we moved in (a previous tenant had drilled into the walls and it looks like a TV stand had been attached to the wall). The paint work in the corners of the room was also cracked and I didn't want the owner thinking I had done this, so I paid for someone to fill in the holes and paint the bedroom. There was a slight patch however on one of the walls the letting agent pointed out (which I couldn't see at the time when they had painted the room, it looked fine but maybe it hadn't dried properly). I wouldn't agree to get them back in to paint again because they did this as a favour to my father at very short notice. I know they did cover the walls with two coats of paint and my father thought they were cheeky for asking as it was a slight patch and I was only making the bedroom better than it was before. The letting agent paid me my deposit back in full however a few weeks later.

I had also spent the following on the house whilst living there:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I spent £232.72 on a plumber at the end of October 07 because the boiler wasn't working and I had no heat or hot water. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I also paid £157.11 on the plumber in July to fit pipes in the kitchen for a dishwasher (there was only plumbing for a washing machine at the time). [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I spent £600 having blinds fitted to all the windows. This made the house look better in my opinion as most new properties have them fitted, and they are a good security deterrent.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I had new carpets fitted, which cost over £600 just for the carpets as the cost of fitting was an extra £65. The carpets I replaced were quite worn and the carpet that was in the hallway had gone a grey colour in places. It really was a marked improvement overall and I would have thought it made the house more marketable. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I had a fireplace made specifically for the fire and hearth. Because of the size and shape of the fire and hearth I couldn't just go into a showroom and buy one, so I had one made. The fireplace cost £276 to be made to measured. All that was there before that was a gas fire on a marble hearth.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I paid £39.99 for a bathroom cabinet, as the on-suite didn't have one and it didn't even have a mirror in there, so I thought this would make it more attractive and the main bathroom already had one.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The shed that was there originally was damaged in the terrible winds we kept having earlier on this year, and there was major damage to the roof, a window actually came out and there was some damage to the door. I was told that it would probably be better to buy a new shed than to even try to make repairs to it. Based on this advice I bought a new shed for the property at a cost of £449.99 and I also bought a garden chest for £139.99. The chest is ideal for garden tools, but it would also be good for putting children's outdoor toys in it etc. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I bought a compost bin at a cost of £40. This is because the garden wasn't in great shape to start with, and my friend (who teaches landscaping and gardening at a local college) told me this would help it by feeding the lawn, I could also use it on flower beds etc.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I replaced a fence panel which was broken after I found out that the owner of the property was responsible for that side of the fence (and it was not broken by me I would like to add), and that cost £15. I was going to replace all the back fence panels as well, but I didn't get chance to do that before finding out I had to leave.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I also spent over £20 on bags of decorative stones to go around the shed and I paid a gardener to place the stepping stones in a different pattern, as well as work on the lawn and re-seed it etc. The weather had been terrible, and the drainage in the garden was terrible so over winter it had turned into sludge.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So in total I spent over £2,400 on the house in the space of 9 months (I was given the impression that it would be a long term let).[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The letting agent told me on the 10th May (which is a day after I had met up with him to terminate the tenancy at the house) that the owner had now been to the house and they had telephoned the letting agent as they were not happy with the paint in the bedroom and the skirting boards in the smaller bedroom. I eventually said that if they weren't happy they could take the cost for putting new skirting boards in the small bedroom (or filling the slices in and then re-painting them) and the cost of painting the main bedroom again out of the deposit that they owed me, but I wanted receipts to make sure I wasn't being ripped off and I wanted the rent they owed me re-paid back in full. Since then they have not contacted me about the money that is owed to me and the letting agent paid me my deposit back in full, which suggested to me that they decided not to fix anything and I would also be receiving the rent I paid in advance back as well. I have not received the money back for the rent that I had paid in advance though (I think they owe me two months rent unless notice periods have to be considered) and they have produced no receipts for any work that they have carried out (so I know what any repairs actually cost that they carried out and they were not ripping me off).

Do they owe me the 2 months rent or is there a legal notice period I need to take into account? If I am owed the 2 months rent I paid in advance for the period when I was not there what do I need to do to get it back?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] I feel like I have been very silly in what I have done, and the money I paid out for the house, and now I feel like I am being ripped off but I don’t know where I stand from a legal point of view. The letting agent did give me written consent to replace the carpets by the way and the carpets were fitted in September 07, and then the letting agent inspected the property in Feb 08 and never said there were any problems. I also got written consent to improve the garden as it was over grown and a bit of a mess when I moved in. The reason I paid for the plumbing is I thought I was supposed to after reading my tenancy agreement. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Can anyone give me any advice on the rent back situation as I don’t know if I am owed two months or not (and I am sorry this post seems so long, I just wanted to try to get the whole picture across). Thanks in advance for any help you can offer me on this matter.

[/FONT]

Premier_2 · 9 July 2008 at 8:31PM

Oh no, don't! You'll make me cry. Your post reminds me of JJ Barrie's classic song, No Charge

:rolleyes:

You appear to have missed a few things off the list:

#For mowin' the lawn - five dollars
#For makin' my own bed this week - one dollar
#And for goin' to the store - fifty cents
#An' playin' with little brother, while you went shoppin' - twenty-five cents
#Takin' out the trash - one dollar
#Gettin' a good report card - five dollars
#And for rakin' the yard - two dollars
#Total owed - four thousand eight hundred and fourteen, seventy-five

:rolleyes:

I couldn't be bothered to read the whole post, but you should have been given proper notice to quit or gave that notice yourself. Without notice, you could still be considered a tenant and could still be liable to the rent.

With regards to all the other items, did you get the permission of the LL to do them and/or give the LL reasonable notice to rectify any faults. Without that, you're stuffed.

Next time, make sure you fully understand your responsibilities as a tenant before signing any TA ... or come and rent from me, please.

Gasha · 10 July 2008 at 5:32AM

I am so gutted.
I have just spent 30 minutes+ answering this and it kicked me out!! :mad:

I will endeavour to do it again later today.

Gasha · 10 July 2008 at 5:48AM

The long & short of it was

Ask for your rent back from the day you moved out, by receiving the keys and in your words 'finalise the termination' they agreed to let you go early.
No proper notice was given by either party so it's difficult to prove that any was given at all. The agent may argue that you just left!

Never pay rent more than 3 months in advance on a periodic (month on month) tenancy. There should never be a need. Officially you need 2 months notice from them and you need to give them one month.

Works in houses??
Always get written permission to carry out works.
Never fix something that was in the property before you moved in i.e. boilers etc. This is the responsibility of the Landlord so phone the agent in the 1st instance.
Repairs? If he didn't come and check the quality of the carpet and the workmanship until february and then STILL didn't notice the marks on the skirting board how can anyone tell that these weren't there before you moved in.
Garden furniture left is the responsibility of the LL thus the agent should have been informed of the damage caused by the winds and weather and either authorised the repair or a replacement. It is not the Tenants duty to just order one and then look for payment of it
Boilers?? No way should you have paid for this!! LL's responsibility.
Dishwasher fixings, your responsibility.

In short

If it's there when you get there it's the LL's responsibility to repair or replace.
If it wasn't there when you got there, take it with you when you leave!
If you are replacing something that was there, get permission and store the old items in the attic to put back should there be any arguments over the quality of the replacement.

Also check the deposit on this one?? Was it suitably protected in a scheme?
Doesn't sound like so you'd have a nice bit of leverage here on getting a refund on your rent if you threaten court action for not protecting the deposit it as they should have.

tbs624 · 10 July 2008 at 11:19AM

That's a pretty long post Chasingamy.......

There seem to be several issues here:

It looks as though you may not have been served notice properly by the LL/LA.
Were you given a formal written notice at any time?

The date that your original tenancy started means that your deposit should have been protected within 14 days of the LA/LL receiving it, and you should also have been given “prescribed information” about the scheme used by the LA, also within 14 days. Did this happen?

LAs/LLs cannot simply deduct amounts from a deposit (or any other payments) without giving full details in writing, and you then have the opportunity to challenge those statements where necessary.

Were you given an inventory at the start of the tenancy (a list of condition/contents) and was it signed by both you and the LA/LL?

The fact that you paid rent in advance may be seen by the LL/LA as a loophole by which to retains what s/he thinks is a justified amount for damage etc to the property, but the advanced rent payment covers ….erm…..rent in advance, and the deposit is for damage/repairs. They either do not know what they are doing or they do and hope that you don’t which will allow them to get away with it.

The situation with regards to any expenditure on your part is that you should always get written agreement to make any alterations or do any re-decoration, however friendly a LA/LL seems at the time (most contracts will state that consent should be in writing). A tenant’s expenditure on things like blinds/compost bins etc are irrelevant to a LL.

However, boiler repairs very definitely fall under a LLs/LA’s legal responsibilities and they should have provided a safe working and certificated gas boiler at all times. It is a criminal offence not to do so - and that’s two separate offences there afaiaa, if the boiler wasn't serviced/subject to a maintenance check and if no certificate was supplied. This falls under the Health & Safety Executive, who can along with a local council, prosecute LLs/LAs, who face fines of several £K for failing to comply with the regs. (Even if an annual service has been done, and you have had a certificate, any subsequent reapirs still fall to the LA/LL.)

My suggestion would be that you don’t talk to the LA/LL any more until you have got some proper qualified advice on all of this. All future dealing should be done in writing, and you can get free help.

You really do need to get all your paperwork together and get an appointment with the Private Sector Team at the local council’s housing dept (separate from council houses/housing association dept).There is a Tenancy Relations Officer there who will be able to help you with this. The alternative is to speak to an experienced LL and T adviser at the local CAB ( do ask for someone experienced) or ring Shelter’s helpline 0808 800 4444. You can also get free legal advice from http://www.clsdirect.org.uk/

PayDay · 10 July 2008 at 11:37AM

Premier wrote: »

Oh no, don't! You'll make me cry. Your post reminds me of JJ Barrie's classic song, No Charge :rolleyes:

Did you have to be so nasty?

Gasha · 10 July 2008 at 11:42AM

thanks to tbs 624 for repeating what I said :rolleyes:

Could I just add in here though that servicing of boilers is NOT mandatory as you stated where a gas safety certificate is.

Apart from that ditto to tbs624's post!!!!

tbs624 · 10 July 2008 at 12:20PM

Gasha wrote: »

thanks to tbs 624 for repeating what I said :rolleyes:

As a newbie maybe you haven't realised that this often happens on a forum - and in this case by the time I'd read the first post, I didn't have the will to read through anyone else's before posting my response

How about you take it as reinforcement of some of your suggestions, instead of rolling your eyes? :kisses3:

Gasha wrote: »

Could I just add in here though that servicing of boilers is NOT mandatory as you stated where a gas safety certificate is.

Here's what the HSE says about LL obligations and gas

"You must also arrange for an annual gas safety check to be carried out every 12 months by a CORGI-registered installer."

I've now amended my post to show this more clearly, but bear in mind that you would not get anyone to sign off a gas safety certificate without a boiler service/maintenance check, and you'd also struggle to show that you had met your obligations regarding boiler safety if you couldn't actually show somehow that you'd maintained it in the safest possible condition. The simplest way to do that is to have it "serviced".

If you live in your own property and choose not to have you boiler regularly serviced, then that's clearly up to you but IMO anyone renting a property out and not doing it is an absolute idiot.

silvercar · 10 July 2008 at 12:41PM

I received the phone call on Friday 25th April 08, and I told the letting agent on 30th April that I had found another house to live in and I was in the process of moving out of the house and was cleaning it as I moved. Another thing you need to know is that in January 2008 I paid £3300 for rent in advance which covered me up to July 8th 2008.

If you paid rent to 8th July I'm assuming your monthly tenancy ran from the 9th of one month to the 8th of the next.

Landlords are obliged to give 2 months notice to end on a rent day in most circumstances, certainly on a periodic like yours. So 25th April would be notice to start from the 9th of May and end on the 8th July, neatly linking with your advance rent.

Your decision to leave earlier than this date is yours alone, unless the landlord had agreed that you could terminate earlier. The fact that checkout was performed earlier at your request is irrelevent, unless you had prior agreement that you would only be charged to rent to that point.

As a tenant you are only obliged to give a month's notice (ending on a rent day). So prior to 8th May you could have given notice that you would leave by 8th June. Whether informing the agent on 7th May counts as notice is debatable, I would suggest that it does as rather than saying "I am giving notice that I am leaving by XX" You are saying that you actually have left. Same effect.

So I would reckon you have a months rent due back to you.

Gasha · 10 July 2008 at 12:45PM

We gonna have to agree to disagree on this one I'm afraid.

Servicing is NOT mandatory as your new post shows, only certification!

Gas safety certs are issued EVERY DAY with not a service record in sight.

I happen to agree with you but the truth of the matter is it doesn't happen i'm afraid. I myself have regular services on boilers in my properties plus the gas cert when required.
I shall heed your advice as a newbie to this forum and shall not roll my eyes any more. :A

BigD1966 · 10 July 2008 at 12:51PM

Just Just Just

Rent Paid in Advance to Letting Agent, then I was asked to leave - am I owed Money?

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