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Good grief - Fifty Seven Billion pounds of aid for Northern Rock
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It's a pretty poor choice. I'll probably vote Tory because I think they're likely to waste less of my money and interfere less with my life than the other two.
Me too, and that will be a first. How we were ever conned into thinking we live in a democracy is beyond me........It's like a turkey choosing between Thanksgiving and Christmas.0 -
Curious_Moose wrote: »So he bails out NR shareholders but left the poor sods who lost their final salary pensions to rot for years.
NR shares have plummeted to less than 10% of their value. Exactly how have they been bailed out? What was the better option?dannyboycey wrote: »Aside from everything else he's doing to us and our country, he's now robbed £2,000 from us all.
Just checked and all my savings are still there.
GGThere are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those that don't.0 -
Guy Fawkes - the only person with a decent political idea.
I'd vote Lib Dem, but on the basis that they're not Tory or New [STRIKE]Tory[/STRIKE], sorry Labour.0 -
It's a pretty poor choice. I'll probably vote Tory because I think they're likely to waste less of my money and interfere less with my life than the other two.
To let northern rock go to the wall would have benefitted no one. A lot of people had savings with them and even more people are on the housing ladder due to NR's "award winning" business model.
Nationalising NR would ensure stability and a smooth transition to NR's future, be it as a business or an asset.
Tories have gone back to promising tax cuts (like first time buyer stamp duty exemption)
And, to be fair, There is yet to be a labour politician banged up. (maybe they've just been lucky) Lord (pah) Archer and jonathon aitkin anyone???
And I can't wait for the possibility of gangs running riot as the tories impliment heir policy on "respect" (ie pass the buck from the government onto the unemployed and the delinquant to sort themselves out!!!!)
I must be mad. But I am one of the few who, despite the recent problems, still think Labour have (overall) been good for this country and still can deliver more then the other guys.
as a footnote, a question. Have they really givien 57 billion to NR? or Is that the potential exposure the BoE can be liable for (ie gauranteeing savings should it fold????) Because there is a BIG difference between the 2"A goldfish left Lincoln logs in me sock drawer!"
"That's the story of JESUS."0 -
CYBERCIDERSAVER wrote: »To let northern rock go to the wall would have benefitted no one. A lot of people had savings with them and even more people are on the housing ladder due to NR's "award winning" business model.
Nationalising NR would ensure stability and a smooth transition to NR's future, be it as a business or an asset.
Tories have gone back to promising tax cuts (like first time buyer stamp duty exemption)
And, to be fair, There is yet to be a labour politician banged up. (maybe they've just been lucky) Lord (pah) Archer and jonathon aitkin anyone???
And I can't wait for the possibility of gangs running riot as the tories impliment heir policy on "respect" (ie pass the buck from the government onto the unemployed and the delinquant to sort themselves out!!!!)
I must be mad. But I am one of the few who, despite the recent problems, still think Labour have (overall) been good for this country and still can deliver more then the other guys.
as a footnote, a question. Have they really givien 57 billion to NR? or Is that the potential exposure the BoE can be liable for (ie gauranteeing savings should it fold????) Because there is a BIG difference between the 2
lets list their achevements
1) BOE independance, granted they fiddled it by not including housing but it prolonged the economic cycle.
thats about all i can think of, seriouly the economy was pretty decent when they took over so cant really calim too much credit for it.
cons
1) tuition fees
2) fiddling inteligance to give the uk its own vietnam
3) massive hikes in taxes
4) abject failure to provide the basic infrasturcture like transport, i heard on the radio it was something like 5% increase in road funding but 27% traffic increase.
5)housing policy, nuff said
6) histerical overreaction to threats, the ira killed loads more people and never cause of a few nutters the police will to force me to carry about an expensive id card (that will likely be hacked by identity theives) and lock me for 3 months if they feel like it, hell they can even shoot me on the tube and nobody gets sacked.
7) HUGE increase in debt
im not particularly political but i really cant see what labour have really done apart from kick out the old guard of torys who had been about so long they thought they could get away with anything.0 -
CYBERCIDERSAVER wrote: »as a footnote, a question. Have they really givien 57 billion to NR? or Is that the potential exposure the BoE can be liable for (ie gauranteeing savings should it fold????) Because there is a BIG difference between the 2
The £57,000,000,000 is a mix of guarantees for savers and 'institutional and wholesale lenders' (that is banks and other large organisations that lend money to banks for short periods make their money work for them and that are the heart of the way banks fund themselves) and also loans directly from the Bank of England.
Northern Rock have given the BoE collateral to cover the loans. Under normal circumstances, the BoE (and most other Central Banks) only lend to banks that give them 'AAA rated sovereign debt' as security. That is Government Bonds from issued by Governments like the UK, US, France, Germany etc. that should hold their value and be easy to sell if the bank can't repay the debt.
What is different in this case is that Northern Rock have been allowed to use lower quality assets to secure their borrowing. This means that they have given the Bank of England mortgages and other debts that are owed to them in return for being able to borrow.
Whilst the BoE's total exposure is £57,000,000,000, the total likely loss is considerably less as the collateral that Northern Rock have put up is pretty good. Not perfect but 'as safe as houses' - in many cases literally.
I can't see any outcome now except Nationalisation. Equity holders have to be wiped out. There is no other outcome that is politically possible IMO. The alternative would be a sort of arranged insolvency (to wipe out the equity) with an agreed buyout of the guarantees by another bank or company. It seems a bit unlikely to me though anything's possible.
PS Labour are terrible and socialists should be whipped through the streets and then shot. I'm not political. Well maybe a little.0 -
You sound like that ad for Nationwide.Gorgeous_George wrote: »Err, it doesn't work like that.
GG
The natural response, then, is 'what do you mean, it doesn't work like that?'
Have the government at last found another source of income?:rotfl:
Charis0 -
im not particularly political but i really cant see what labour have really done apart from kick out the old guard of torys who had been about so long they thought they could get away with anything.
Sure we don't live in a utopia but who does? My experience has been a positive one in terms of health, education etc. And I currently feel hopeful my sons will benefit from it all (the child trust thingy has made me think about their future and am regularly putting money aside for them.)
One example. In 2002 I waited over six months for a referral to a specialist. 5 years later, a second referral for the same problems took less than a month. It included various times that I could choose to suit me and my hospital stay was a good experience. even the food was good (although I was on IV steroids so I'd have probably eaten a dead dog!)
Anyway all of that is not the actual theme of this thread so i'll stop there."A goldfish left Lincoln logs in me sock drawer!"
"That's the story of JESUS."0 -
CYBERCIDERSAVER wrote: »Sure we don't live in a utopia but who does? My experience has been a positive one in terms of health, education etc. And I currently feel hopeful my sons will benefit from it all (the child trust thingy has made me think about their future and am regularly putting money aside for them.)
One example. In 2002 I waited over six months for a referral to a specialist. 5 years later, a second referral for the same problems took less than a month. It included various times that I could choose to suit me and my hospital stay was a good experience. even the food was good (although I was on IV steroids so I'd have probably eaten a dead dog!)
Anyway all of that is not the actual theme of this thread so i'll stop there.
I agree to a certain extent - but Labour had been in power for 5 years in 2002...
If you are a young working adult though - you have been utterly shafted by New Labour. Massive HPI (despite promises otherwise). Poor protection as a private tenant and practically no social housing available to you. Massive debt to get through Uni (although the Tories did start the trend). If you are an unskilled/semi-skilled young worker - no doubt you are finding it difficult to compete with the large numbers of foreign workers who have arrived in the last few years.
More tory than the last lot ever was and the alternatives look pretty grim.0 -
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