Change of contract with NO notice

shellsuit · 26 February 2008 at 9:41PM

I work in a butchers/bakery shop, on a Wednesday and Thursday, 9am - 6pm with an hour for lunch.

I found out tonight (from a friend I work with) that when I go in tomorrow, I'll be expected to take half an hour for lunch from now on (they started it on Monday, it's not just me, it's everyone but I've only just found out)

What happened was, on a Mon, Tues and Wed, the shop was shut for lunch between 1 and 2. It's been like that for years (and I mean years). On a Thurs, Fri and Sat, the shop is open all day right through.

For the past 3-4 weeks, on a Thursday, because we were short staffed, we were asked if we would mind having half hour lunch, we were ok with that as it was only until we could get another member of staff.

Now apparantly (because I've only been in touch with work friend through texts), they have another member of staff, but the shop will open every day, right through, with no close for lunch, but they still want us to just have half hour for lunch.

This would mean me working 17 hours a week, instead of 16, which means all the palava of sorting it out through tax credits :rolleyes:

What will happen if I refuse???

LittleVoice · 26 February 2008 at 9:53PM

They would need to prove that your not working for those 30 minutes a day would create problems for the business.

However, it sounds as though you have already worked more than 16 hours a week for 3-4 weeks. So how does that affect your tax credits already?

If you take only half-an-hour for lunch, can you not make adjustments at the start and/or end of the day so that your total hours remain the same?

shellsuit · 26 February 2008 at 10:05PM

LittleVoice wrote: »

They would need to prove that your not working for those 30 minutes a day would create problems for the business. I'm not with you sorry?

However, it sounds as though you have already worked more than 16 hours a week for 3-4 weeks. So how does that affect your tax credits already? Half an hour extra, once a week for 3 weeks, which is 1 1/2 hours extra @ minumum wage, I don't think TC are gonna do me for fraud just for that lol!

If you take only half-an-hour for lunch, can you not make adjustments at the start and/or end of the day so that your total hours remain the same? I shouldn't have to mess about and sort things myself though should I?

If they had done the decent thing and called a meeting and said our hours were going to be 9-5.30 with half an hour lunch and gave us a new contract, then fine, but they haven't.

They haven't even told me and I'll only find out tomorrow when I go in, when I'm just expected to take half an hour lunch, when the shop has closed and I've taken an hour for the past 4 years! I needed to do something tomorrow too and I can't get it done in half an hour :mad:

Can I just add too, that 2 years ago, we weren't getting paid the minimum wage. Nobody would say anything to the boss, so I rang the Inland Revenue to report it. (There's a thread on here way back about it all)

IR got involved. We were expected to sign a contract which was full of lies, to make out we were getting paid more than the minimum wage, (basically it said we worked less hours than we actually did) I refused (nobody else did!) and they paid us all back pay.

Oh and I forgot to say, even though they want us to have half an hour lunch, they won't be paying for the extra half hour worked!

wishiwasarichgirl · 26 February 2008 at 10:18PM

I would just walk out when you are due to go for lunch and turn up again an hour later.

shellsuit · 26 February 2008 at 10:31PM

wishiwasarichgirl wrote: »

I would just walk out when you are due to go for lunch and turn up again an hour later.

Oh believe me I'd love to! :rotfl:

I can't though, because we have staggered lunches when the shop doesn't close, if I don't come back, then it means whoever is after me will have to wait longer and it's not fair on them.

I just want them to realise they can't do this ~ not the way they have gone about it anyway!

I even went on the job centre site on Monday funnily enough, found a couple of things on there, so I'll get ringing around on Friday because I'm sick of the way they operate ~ honestly, they couldn't run a pish up in a brewery!

The shop is only 5 mins away from me so it's a Godsend because I don't have to fork out for fares, that's the only reason I've stuck there so long, because it's convinient, but I'm not gonna be treated like this any longer.

I can actually see me walking out tomorrow

Savvy_Sue · 26 February 2008 at 10:48PM

But if you're only on minimum wage, surely they can't increase your hours (even by half an hour) without paying you a bit more?

I agree they've gone about this all wrong. If you need to keep the job, I would politely state that while in principle I'm happy to adjust my hours, I needed that hour today, apologise to your colleague who has to wait, and do what you need to do.

LittleVoice · 26 February 2008 at 10:58PM

Originally Posted by LittleVoice

They would need to prove that your not working for those 30 minutes a day would create problems for the business. I'm not with you sorry?

Sorry I wasn't clear - If they want to change your contract and you don't agree, then they can only do this (or dismiss you) if they can show that it would be detrimental to the business for you not to agree. So would they really not be able to operate if you as a single member of staff did not accept.

However, it sounds as though you have already worked more than 16 hours a week for 3-4 weeks. So how does that affect your tax credits already? Half an hour extra, once a week for 3 weeks, which is 1 1/2 hours extra @ minumum wage, I don't think TC are gonna do me for fraud just for that lol!

It was you who raised the question of problems with working over 16 hours so I was just pointing out that it was not entirely new.

If you take only half-an-hour for lunch, can you not make adjustments at the start and/or end of the day so that your total hours remain the same? I shouldn't have to mess about and sort things myself though should I?

This is about negotiation for you to get what you want (no extra hours in total) but for the employer to get the cover at lunchtime they want. It's called trying to get a win-win outcome. Quite honestly, unless you really need a full 60 minutes for your lunch, then having extra time to yourself before and/or after the day would be considered better by a lot of people.

shellsuit · 26 February 2008 at 11:04PM

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

But if you're only on minimum wage, surely they can't increase your hours (even by half an hour) without paying you a bit more?

I agree they've gone about this all wrong. If you need to keep the job, I would politely state that while in principle I'm happy to adjust my hours, I needed that hour today, apologise to your colleague who has to wait, and do what you need to do.

They won't pay more Sue, that's why they are opening the shop all day every day, so there is more money coming in.

I'll just have to have it out with them in the morning and find out for definite.

I'd already booked a weeks holiday next week, so I'll just ask them to sort a new contract with the hours 9-5.30 for the week I'm back, then I'll know everything is above board

LittleVoice · 26 February 2008 at 11:18PM

shellsuit wrote: »

They won't pay more Sue, that's why they are opening the shop all day every day, so there is more money coming in.

But if they really are only paying the statutory minimum wage, then if staff have to work longer they have to be paid for the hours - they can't have people working for nothing, it's not legal.

shellsuit · 26 February 2008 at 11:19PM

I've posted in pink sorry

LittleVoice wrote: »

Originally Posted by LittleVoice
They would need to prove that your not working for those 30 minutes a day would create problems for the business. I'm not with you sorry?

Sorry I wasn't clear - If they want to change your contract and you don't agree, then they can only do this (or dismiss you) if they can show that it would be detrimental to the business for you not to agree. So would they really not be able to operate if you as a single member of staff did not accept. If they just want to change the lunch time and not the pay or the hours worked, then I'd walk to be honest, they wouldn't miss me, but it would c0ck them up until they could find somebody else to replace me.

However, it sounds as though you have already worked more than 16 hours a week for 3-4 weeks. So how does that affect your tax credits already? Half an hour extra, once a week for 3 weeks, which is 1 1/2 hours extra @ minumum wage, I don't think TC are gonna do me for fraud just for that lol!

It was you who raised the question of problems with working over 16 hours so I was just pointing out that it was not entirely new. I know what you meant sorry, I just mean if it was a permanent thing then I would have to decalre it to TC which means a lot of messing about and waiting.

If you take only half-an-hour for lunch, can you not make adjustments at the start and/or end of the day so that your total hours remain the same? I shouldn't have to mess about and sort things myself though should I?

This is about negotiation for you to get what you want (no extra hours in total) but for the employer to get the cover at lunchtime they want. It's called trying to get a win-win outcome. Quite honestly, unless you really need a full 60 minutes for your lunch, then having extra time to yourself before and/or after the day would be considered better by a lot of people. This is what I don't understand though, they have just taken someone on to cover lunch hours?? I do need an hours lunch for definite in the school holidays though as I need to pop home to see my son. I don't mind going in at 9.30am, or knocking off at 5.30, but it's whether they agree with that.

It just annoys me that they have to change things with no notice at all.

I've just made a note of a number to ring for another job anyway, so I'll ring that whatever lunch time I get tomorrow lol

shellsuit · 26 February 2008 at 11:20PM

LittleVoice wrote: »

But if they really are only paying the statutory minimum wage, then if staff have to work longer they have to be paid for the hours - they can't have people working for nothing, it's not legal.

I know, but that wouldn't deter them, just like I've mentioned at the end of post #3.

Change of contract with NO notice

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