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[MSE Lawrence]

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's 'How do you describe a website to someone who’s never used it?' blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.

Read Martin's 'How do you describe a website to someone who’s never used it?' blog.

Click reply to discuss below.

[kittykitten]

I went for the very simplified version when I first was tasked with explaining the net to my nanna: basically people type information into their computers (showed her microsoft word where I could type something and save it) and you save it so other people can look up that information on their computers: the internet is like a giant encyclopaedia - you can find out pretty much anything you want! So in Martin's case he types in the specialist money-saving info he comes across (well, not always him personally!), and people who want to see it can look on their computers and see it.

This was back in the days of dial-up so it was fairly easy to explain that the information was transmitted through phone lines, as she understood the concept of faxes etc. Slightly harder to explain now we have broadband, particularly as it's wireless - haven't had to tackle that explanation yet!

[Badger_Lady]

A website is a book that you can use on your computer and share with anybody else in the world.

It might have words, pictures... references to other "books". Sometimes you can tell the "book" what you're looking for, and it will find it for you. And it might have some forms you can fill in and send without having to use Royal Mail.

You can use the forms to speak to other people who are using the same "book". Other forms will allow you to buy things (a bit like Mail Order), or to make requests.

The "book" can also recognise its readers - it can remember you and say "hello" when you open it. It will know how many people are reading it and how many people have read it before.

And the author can change his "book" whenever he likes. He doesn't need to publish a new edition or even tell you what he's done - it will just be a bit different the next time you open it.

[Katgoddess]

Can she use teletext? My technophobic mother knows that it is similar and I can look up information for her.

[Thatcham Wylie]

My explanation for my mum, was that the

[Thatcham Wylie]

Apologies for my previous post, this is my first try, and I seemed to have pressed something by accident, and posted my beginnings by accident!

I tried to compare it to something with which she was very familiar.

It is like going in to a large Shopping Centre, without having to wear your legs out! It has lots of different shops.

Each shop is used to many visitors who just browse, and may buy something or not on their visit.

This Shopping Centre has a very comprehensive help desk, as well as the Public Library, Art Galleries etc. The BBC even has a unit!

In this shopping centre, (the World Wide Web) each shop or unit is called a website, and by visiting it, you are simply window-shopping, or, if you chose, browsing inside.

Many people use this WWW Shopping Centre without ever spending any money, as most units allow you to browse and research for nothing.

My Mum found this helpful enough to get her over the fear of diving in, and I am presently trying to encourage her to 'Get in the car' (use her computer) more often, and visit more often!

[aris]

I work in IT and my mom doesn't really understand what I do. She just tells people "he works with computers". For her circle of friends, that is usually enough of an explanation.

[foreversomeday]

I find with older/technophobic people it helps to show them websites related to something they might be familiar with first - like their local/favourite newspaper, or the BBC website. Google's also a good website to begin to explain with because of it's simple design - unlike moneysavingexpert.com, which is full of information (a good thing) but if you're not used to it could be a bit daunting and difficult to know where to start.

The wireless is easy to explain - it works on the same principles as radio waves do, and remember it's only being transmitted from your router - any further afield and it is all hard-wired anyway.

I like the shopping centre and the encyclopaedia idea!

[Strapped]

Originally Posted by aris

I work in IT and my mom doesn't really understand what I do. She just tells people "he works with computers". For her circle of friends, that is usually enough of an explanation.

SNAP! (I model stuff... )

[george1234567]

(In *MY* opinion) Old people, or people who do not know about dangers/risks involved using a computer connected to the internet should not be allowed to connect to the internet at all.

[thewizard]

Originally Posted by george1234567

(In *MY* opinion) Old people, or people who do not know about dangers/risks involved using a computer connected to the internet should not be allowed to connect to the internet at all.

then you start the debate on who can and can't use it. Some old people know more than many of us here do. I know a 50 odd year old who knows way more than 90% of the people on MSE know about computers. so therefore...

...age doesn't matter.


I never used to know the dangers of connecting to the internet, but I'd only just got a computer then. Now, I know how to combat almost any problem, I can solve 99% of the problems that I ever face, if I can't I can always use the fail safe, format and start again, but I've even got ways to make that easier n less work. If I can't fix it, there is always some else who can help me.

You can't understand the risks of using a computer or connecting to the internet unless you've actually used one. You can't teach IT from a book at a desk without having a computer in front of you.

Most computers now come preloaded with security software on them, most ISPs offer security software. And there is enough publicity out there for people to realise that they have to do something.

As for explaining to none computer literate people...

show them, give them a demonstration, something simple. Explain that word is like a typewriter, the internet is like teletext and email is like a fax, but they're all quicker, easier and more efficient. Maybe even get them to have a little go? Let them find out how easy it is?

[Contains Mild Peril]

Originally Posted by thewizard

then you start the debate on who can and can't use it. Some old people know more than many of us here do. I know a 50 odd year old who knows way more than 90% of the people on MSE know about computers.

50 odd? Crikey, that's practically a dinosaur!
Seriously, I do agree with most of your post: you can't really explain properly without a demonstration. Most elderly people in first-world countries have at least some idea of what the internet is so it's not so much the basic concept that needs explaining, as how to use it to their benefit.

[george1234567]

Originally Posted by thewizard

......
You can't understand the risks of using a computer or connecting to the internet unless you've actually used one. You can't teach IT from a book at a desk without having a computer in front of you.
......

Yes, I agree with that comment, however, if the user is computer illiterate, they should be taught the basics first, and know a small part about them before they even think about going online... someone who says "whats a website?", is not a part of that group.

Im speaking from experience about this, someone I know (nearly age 70) just got his first computer, and the salesmen persuaded him to go online at the same time... a week later after clicking adverts for spyware software thinking it was a "critical error click here to fix" and infecting his PC with trojans, adware and goodness knows what else, his credit card details were used fraudulently.

So, people who do not know - allowed to use a computer, yes no problem... allowed to go online - no way!

Again, just my opinion...

[thewizard]

Originally Posted by george1234567

Yes, I agree with that comment, however, if the user is computer illiterate, they should be taught the basics first, and know a small part about them before they even think about going online... someone who says "whats a website?", is not a part of that group.

Im speaking from experience about this, someone I know (nearly age 70) just got his first computer, and the salesmen persuaded him to go online at the same time... a week later after clicking adverts for spyware software thinking it was a "critical error click here to fix" and infecting his PC with trojans, adware and goodness knows what else, his credit card details were used fraudulently.

So, people who do not know - allowed to use a computer, yes no problem... allowed to go online - no way!

Again, just my opinion...

Partially, the cause of that problem lies with the salesman, he should of assessed the customer before offering the internet. Ok, yes they have to meet sales targets and they're all commission driven. But maybe they could of made more money by offering information on getting online?

The government wants all of us online by whatever year it is, maybe they should do something to help the people that don't know what their doing otherwise I seriously doubt they will ever go online again?

Originally Posted by Contains Mild Peril

50 odd? Crikey, that's practically a dinosaur!

Say that to his face, you'd be that dinosaurs dinner

[robin58]

Originally Posted by george1234567

(In *MY* opinion) Old people, or people who do not know about dangers/risks involved using a computer connected to the internet should not be allowed to connect to the internet at all.

Humm! I will be going over to the Silver Savers Forum in the new year!

I work in a cinema and we have got installed one of the current Digital Projectors. They updated the server part of it recently.

Got thrown at the deepend at work when having to learn how to programm it. Was learning how to programm it with manual in one hand whilst poking at touch screen interface with the other. I only found out later that I was reading the wrong manual!

Was only using the difference between the old/new server manual.

Got it working though!!

Age personally has got nothing to do with it. It's if the receiving mind is inquizative enough to be able to go, seek and soak up the info.

I look at the internet as one big library. Where all the sites are books, the front page index are the chapters and the web pages, are pages from that book.

[thewizard]

Originally Posted by robin58

Age personally has got nothing to do with it. It's if the receiving mind is inquizative enough to be able to go, seek and soak up the info.

That's what I was trying to say, but I couldn't put it any better than that.

And as for what I see the internet as: a tool that I can do almost anything with, its like a huge electronic swiss army knife that stretches across the globe.

[Mandy_P]

I usually describe it to elderly relatives as a newspaper or magazine which is displyed on the computer. I contains news, articles and adverts.

I also work in IT and no one in my family has a clue what I do for a living.

[Aries]

Why not introduce your elderly relatives to the Computor?
It will open up a new world to them,and keep the Brain active.
I am a 72 year old Woman and the Internet has changed my life.
no time to get bored because Im addicted to this site.
I am a very late starter with lots to learn,but I am very cautious about security when shopping on line.
Why not recycle your old PC s to an elderly reletive and give them this opportunity too.

[foreversomeday]

Originally Posted by george1234567

Yes, I agree with that comment, however, if the user is computer illiterate, they should be taught the basics first, and know a small part about them before they even think about going online... someone who says "whats a website?", is not a part of that group.

Im speaking from experience about this, someone I know (nearly age 70) just got his first computer, and the salesmen persuaded him to go online at the same time... a week later after clicking adverts for spyware software thinking it was a "critical error click here to fix" and infecting his PC with trojans, adware and goodness knows what else, his credit card details were used fraudulently.

So, people who do not know - allowed to use a computer, yes no problem... allowed to go online - no way!

Again, just my opinion...

Knowing not to click silly adverts like that though should be part of basic computer training - most people know by now not to send off the letter you get in the post telling you you've won the Spanish Lottery or answer the nice man on the phone who offers you a free holiday for only £15 to cover processing.

Agreed the salesman shouldn't have encouraged him to go online without checking he knew what he was doing - but would you buy a car without knowing how to drive it (or intending to learn)?

[Fran]

Originally Posted by Badger_Lady

A website is a book ...

That was my first thought and probably all that a person who won't use a computer needs to know except that people can leave messages for each other to read and can contribute to the website/book.

Originally Posted by thewizard

...Some old people know more than many of us here do. I know a 50 odd year old who knows way more than 90% of the people on MSE know about computers.

This '50 odd year old' objects to being called 'old' (just wait till you are that age!).

Originally Posted by Contains Mild Peril

50 odd? Crikey, that's practically a dinosaur!

This dinosaur is not amused!

Originally Posted by thewizard

Say that to his face, you'd be that dinosaurs dinner

Don't assume all dinosaurs are male!

Originally Posted by Aries

Why not introduce your elderly relatives to the Computor?
It will open up a new world to them,and keep the Brain active.
I am a 72 year old Woman and the Internet has changed my life.

Hooray!!!!