Northen Rock [Merged Threads]

old_codger1 · 17 September 2007 at 8:18PM

There's never a situation that can't be improved by the recitation of poetry. Rudyard 'The Man' Kipling is right up there, in my book

old_codger1 · 17 September 2007 at 8:23PM

caveman38 wrote: »

It may seem like a silly question. I understand that the Government have underwritten 100% of the savers deposits in the NR. Would you understand that to mean all of the interest that you would explain to receive at maturity of the Bond or just the initial deposit

I'd imagine it means all the money they would have received if nothing had happened because, bluntly, nothing HAS happened... apart from hysteria causing a liquidity crisis which could happen to any bank.

The shareholders, on the other hand, will likely lose some money if they decide to sell too quickly. However, if they hang on they might find they haven't been hit too hard because NR will probably be sold to one of the other banks/building societies in the near future.

harryhound · 18 September 2007 at 10:00AM

Tommaso46 wrote: »

< my students will ABSOLUTELY be taught about the Financial Services Compensation Scheme>

Rather, you should teach them that housing should be a civil right, not a market.

So you want to live on the 6th walk up floor in a multi-generation home of two rooms sharing a kitchen and bathroom scratching a living of 50GBP a month?

Can I suggest you visit the terracotta warriors and ask yourself what went wrong politically subsequently.

Do you think the black & white cat theory, or the one country two systems being imposed at the moment is improving the lot of the population on average?

Can I suggest concentrating on responsibilities - when ever I read "rights" I have a feeling there is someone who thinks it is possible to live at the expense of someone else.

Before you write me off as a raving right-winger I would be happy to debate land rights and the concept of a land tax with you.

Harry.

confused1 · 18 September 2007 at 10:05AM

Blimey, is NR the catalyst for this great inspiration? At least, one good positive outcome, eh?

Yant1 wrote: »

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream -- and not make dreams your master;
If you can think -- and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings -- nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run --
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And -- which is more -- you'll be a Man, my son!

harryhound · 18 September 2007 at 10:29AM

Hi fellow old codger,

You and I have probably seen it all before BUT remember a very significant proportion of people under 35 have no memory of a set back, (including my DD). They really do believe that house prices are a one way street. I recently sat down with some of the IPOD generation and went through the history of the Nationwide index. They were convinced that someone must have fiddled the figures for the South East between '88 & 2000; when in reality, if it were not for the market freezing up as people refused to sell and admit their losses, the dip would have been greater (but probably shorter).
I can also understand pensioners, who don't begin to understand the con trick that is banking, who have already seen their endowments, & pensions not living up to expectations joining the panic.

We still don't know who (except for the Bank of China) who has a big holding of these toxic packaged mortgages, already rapidly falling in value because the dollar is falling, never mind the defaults coming through the system. Only when the B of E publishes these figures, will markets get under way again. (N.Rock's exposure appears to be very little, they have probably been selling not buying).

I recommend that everyone, especially the IPOD generation, listens to the BBC World Service (648 medium wave else on the web and the digital channels). Global Business is repeated at 12:05, 20:05, 00:05 and on
Radio-4 at 02:05 (if you IPODS & pensioners still cannot sleep:D)
The program explains why a crisis happens every 10 to 15 years, the presenter is probably another old codger.

Harry

John_Pierpoint · 11 July 2008 at 1:11PM

Ian_W wrote: »

You don't remember [BCCI] very well then.
It only had about 6500 creditors in the UK.
See WICKY
or BBC

NR has about £114billon in assets, as against £24billion in retail deposits.

See
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1992/nov/06/bcci-bingham-report

At the time of closure, BCCI had 25 branches in the United Kingdom with deposits totalling £1.85 billion., of which one third were sterling retail deposits. Deposits by United Kingdom residents totalled £240 million, of which three quarters were in sterling. I understand that BCCI had more than 53,000 sterling accounts. The Deposit Protection Board has sent out claims forms to some 42,000 depositors. So far, more than 16,500 claims have been lodged with the board, and more than 9,000 of them have already been paid. A total of more than £54 million has been paid out so far, and we expect the final figure to be a good deal higher—perhaps as much as £85 million.
I can understand, of course, why a number of hon. Members—especially those who have had experience of hardship among their own constituents—should want to suggest that additional compensation should be paid to help those who have lost some or all of their savings as a result of the fraud.
The Government have made it clear that responsibility for the collapse of BCCI rests with those who devised, directed and implemented the frauds and that there is no justification for public money being used to provide recompense to those who have lost as a result. There are also other compelling reasons for this, which I invite the House to consider.
First, no system of banking supervision is fail-safe. When a fraud like this is led and organised by those at the very heart of an institution's management, and where so much time and effort was devoted to concealing its existence both from supervisors and from their auditors, it is particularly difficult to detect in its early stages.
It was because Parliament acknowledged that no system of banking supervision could ever guarantee banks against failure that the Banking Act 1987 established the Deposit Protection Board to provide a degree of compensation for depositors.

Oblivion · 11 July 2008 at 6:04PM

old_codger1 wrote: »

The shareholders, on the other hand, will likely lose some money if they decide to sell too quickly. However, if they hang on they might find they haven't been hit too hard because NR will probably be sold to one of the other banks/building societies in the near future.

Those with savings in NR need to be vigilant for that possible outcome, because the government's 100% guarantee will disappear and a saver may already have savings with whichever group takeover NR and their FSCS guarantee (currently £35,000) may be compromised.

Dave.

Northen Rock [Merged Threads]

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