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Are you sure NMM? I've noticed they don't half scuttle off fast to get behind the lead screens:-))Need_More_Money wrote: »Perhaps you could take heart from the fact that Radiologists live longer than other Doctors, despite (or perhaps because?) receiving higher radiation doses every year
On a more serious note, I have a lasting memory of my less than one year old son being X-Ray'd in an emergency at Croydon years ago. He had a suspected twisted intestine or bowel. The radiologist made a mistake with the first X-Ray and over-exposed the plate I believe. I was already wary of X-Rays by then and was in fact 12 years closer to the end of my Physics degree. I was dismayed at the nonchalance of the radiologist who just rushed to cover up the mistake as if it was routine like stalling a car, and started the X-Ray procedure all over again.
I could not bring myself to stop it and query it strongly before allowing the second X-Ray because I knew my son was in so much pain and we were so worried that we didn't know what was wrong at that point.
The X-Ray turned out to be inconclusive and in fact no conclusive diagnosis was made - my son just improved overnight and didn't look back.
For a long time I was pretty mad about what I thought had happened and a bit worried about possible well over-limits exposure.
Touch-wood he's fine although he broke his forearm near the wrist twice in quick succession in the same place a couple of years ago! I was a little concerned about the duality of that one too!0 -
I wouldn't be so worried about medical x-rays as you are Peter.
Although it was 'Inconclusive' for your son, and didn't give a diagnosis in itself, it would still have eliminated many other things, and so still have been useful.
Medical x-rays are only taken if needed. Not for fun. Occasionally, things go wrong and they have to be re-done, but the dosage is still only the same as a couple of months ordinary background radiation as opposed to a single month.
The criteria I use when considering an x-ray for a patient is 'Does this x-ray have the ability to change the treatment I might give this patient?'
So, if a patient comes in with a painful tooth that is tender when I tap it, and from previous routine x-rays of the area I know there is a large filling there which is close to the nerve, then I don't need another x-ray. The tooth has an abscess, and there is nothing a new x-ray could tell me that would change how I go about fixing it.
If I saw a new patient who presented for a check-up, then unless I had at least a pair of x-rays of the back teeth, then I couldn't tell that patient there was nothing wrong.
Medical x-rays are useful, and no more harmful than many other things in our life that expose us to higher natural radiation.How to find a dentist.
1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.0 -
Need_More_Money wrote: »Perhaps you could take heart from the fact that Radiologists live longer than other Doctors, despite (or perhaps because?) receiving higher radiation doses every year
I seem to remember hearing somewhere, NMM, that there are an unusually high number of Hiroshima survivors still alive? Statistically more than would be expected for a population of that age? Have you heard that one?How to find a dentist.
1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.0 -
Toothsmith wrote: »I seem to remember hearing somewhere, NMM, that there are an unusually high number of Hiroshima survivors still alive? Statistically more than would be expected for a population of that age? Have you heard that one?
Yes that is true. Those that survived the blast but received very high radiation doses had a slightly increased risk of cancer. However, those that received doses doses less than about 200mSv (thousands of times higher than a dental x-ray) had no increase in the incidence of cancer. They are also healthier than the unexposed Japanese in that their death from all causes is lower than for the unexposed Japanese. The improved health of those with low doses more than compensated for the radiation induced cancer deaths in those with higher doses so that A-bomb survivors as a group are living longer on the average than the unexposed Japanese controls.
This could be due to the postive effects of the radiation (known as hormesis) but there are other explanations too.
There are other studies suggesting health benefits from radiation too. The biggest one was from the Nuclear Shipyard workers in the USA. I've copied the text below from the website of Prof John Cameron which you might find of interest for explaining the safety of x-rays to your patients. Some of the radiation doses given are now out of date because, as you say, improvements in various technologies have allowed them to be reduced.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Nuclear shipyard workers were much healthier [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times]than non-nuclear shipyard workers[/FONT] Evidence for health benefits from low dose rate radiation comes from the nuclear shipyard workers study (NSWS) a decade ago. This DOE sponsored study found that 29,000 nuclear shipyard workers with the highest cumulative doses had slightly less cancer than 33,000 job matched and age matched controls. The decreased cancer among nuclear workers was not statistically significant. However, the low death rate from all causes for the nuclear workers was statistically very significant. Nuclear workers had a death rate 24% (16 standard deviations) lower than the unexposed control group. If the nuclear workers had a death rate 24% higher than the controls, it would have made the world news in 1988.0 -
peterbaker wrote: »
On a more serious note, I have a lasting memory of my less than one year old son being X-Ray'd in an emergency at Croydon years ago. He had a suspected twisted intestine or bowel. The radiologist made a mistake with the first X-Ray and over-exposed the plate I believe. I was already wary of X-Rays by then and was in fact 12 years closer to the end of my Physics degree. I was dismayed at the nonchalance of the radiologist who just rushed to cover up the mistake as if it was routine like stalling a car, and started the X-Ray procedure all over again.
I could not bring myself to stop it and query it strongly before allowing the second X-Ray because I knew my son was in so much pain and we were so worried that we didn't know what was wrong at that point.
As Toothsmith says, I wouldn't be so worried about x-rays. Ocasionally, repeat exposures are required but there should be strict procedures in place to minimise the number of times this is required. Legislation was tightened even further in 2000.
The repeat exposure would have to be justified, and as you say you were worried so it is still better to do the xray and get the information than to be left in the dark. Remember that these doses are almost always at least 10s and often 100s or 1000s of times below the level where any detrimental effect has ever been shown.0 -
Prehaps we're going the wrong way in trying to reduce patients exposures to x-rays!
Where did I put that old machine with the clockwork timer??????
How to find a dentist.
1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.0 -
I knew I could hear that ticking noise, Toothsmith! Far too regular to be from the Geiger Counter!
I am going to let you in on a secret now, boys and girsl and you can laugh if you want and I am sure you will say well that says it all ...
About 3 months ago I bought a handheld detector of many things EMR ... cost about sixty quid! I stumbled across it when I was Googling for something or other unrelated I think. Now you might say "gawd they saw you coming old son" but I find it damned interesting to play around with sometimes and I can confirm that indeed on a Netgear DG834 router that if you change the settings to disable the Wireless Access Point then the noise does stop so its not just a random ticker!
For a start, as someone suggested earlier, I had no idea that power sockets might emit such a detectible pulsing field not just at 50Hz or some obvious harmonic, but some of them at about 3 or 4 Hz (dunno why).
And the WiFi emits a pulse that on the detector is made to sound like an old BSA motorbike on fast tickover! But the most noticeable thing is when I face the thing out of the window here in London and I get a constant squeal at the same kind of frequency as the mobile pulses we recognise over our pc speakers, just before an SMS arrives perhaps, except it is not blips it is continuous and i can only assume comes from I think the several mobile phone masts within 500m, or is it the crescendo of WiFi from the hundred flats opposite:-)
I have taken the detector to my brothers house in the country and it is so quiet. Yet they of course have perfectly serviceable mobile coverage and internet!
PS The detector has also caused me not to stand so close to the microwave or to peer constantly into it to check whether my chicken dinner might be ready! Rather too much of what cooks the damn food seems to be loose in my kitchen!
Actually, I have just taken a new 100m bluetooth dongle out of its wrapper ... I barely need it but it was cheap and my kids use Bluetooth to get stuff from the pc to their phones. That doesnt give as strong a signal as the WiFi router when there is no significant Bluetooth data transfer taking place maybe a light 2Hz tick, but when it is working on a file transfer then it has a higher pitch pulsing noise all of its own. Numbers would be good to tell you, but sorry people this thing is just like a rudimentary geiger.
Now you can snigger into your cocoa if you must:-)0 -
Nothing is safe until you can make it as safe. And even then, its never 100% safe.
Cheers.0 -
In response to Need_More_Money..... There was something on a horizon program a while back about airline pilots living longer etc (NO.... no relativistic effects involved) lol .... Something to do with exposure to increased Cosmic Rays exposure so not all radiation is so dangerous I suppose.
For those worried about X-Rays there is a "soft" variety about nowadays!!! just a physicist lame joke I suppose....
OK no more late night mutterings from a fool....
Jools
Personally I like a little InfraRed to warm the old hands b4 bedtime.Grocery Challenge 2008
Jan £103.17/£180, Feb £47.06/£120
£10 per day Challenge 2008
Jan 08 £17.64/£140 (Late start and lost the plot!!!)0 -
Two people recently got cautioned for "dishonestly obtaining electronic communications services with intent to avoid payment."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/6565079.stm0
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