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**MSE Lawrence** · 13-10-2009, 2:47 PM

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.

Read Martin's "MPs expenses payback - now they know how tax credit victims feel" Blog.

Please click reply to discuss below.

prowla · 13-10-2009, 3:56 PM

It still amazes me that they are saying "we claimed within the rules", when clearly they weren't.
At best they had formed a little collaborative cartel that colluded to circumvent the rules.

dancingfairy · 13-10-2009, 5:07 PM

I'm not sure which appaling system you want changed -I'm guessng the tax credits system but it sounds like they are both in need of changing really.
I also doubt that the MPs will suffer hardship in order to repay the money whereas those who overpaid tax credits may have to.
df

whyiwearwellies · 13-10-2009, 5:26 PM

Well said, no sympathy from HMRC even when you tell them you don't want the money. Still getting claim forms (x2) even though we have told them year on year we are not entitled.
Some MP's owe nothing, so somebody in Westminster understands reasonable

lowbrim · 13-10-2009, 7:57 PM

What is the betting that a few of the MP's raise a legal challenge to avoid paying expenses back!! Of course it will all be at the taxpayers expense paying for top lawyers etc etc.

They don't live in the real world. We go on about corruption by politicians in third world countries but our politicians are no better. We get one chance to vote every 4-5 years and once they are in they fill there boots!! When are their gold plated pensions going to go up to 65 before they can draw them and the generous final salary converted to a contributory pension?

All we want is a level playing field and politicians to lead by example is that really too much to ask?

beer tins · 14-10-2009, 9:26 AM

Tax credits aren't the only example. There are many cases where HMRC - or another government body - move the goal posts and then apply charges retrospectively. Just ask any self employed person, for a start. I would hope that the same MPs who complain about the unfairness of retrospective charges due to rule changes would also seek to have this practice ended with regards to other laws. I won't hold my breath, though.

landsker · 14-10-2009, 9:32 AM

They made the rules themselves, the "official" administrative body is employed directly by themselves (NOT independent, therefore), all to ensure they made more money for their greedy troughing snouts.

zygurat789 · 14-10-2009, 3:31 PM

The rules are, and have been, in place for a considerable time and are regularly used by HMRC, businesses and accountants, why should MPs have created their own special and favourable set of rules?
Claiming interest for a mortgage which you don't have just has to be either fraud or theft, aren't these crimes which the police HAVE to investgate?

anthony_hunt · 14-10-2009, 4:45 PM

This year my company didn't make a lot of money, so rather than fire anyone, we ALL took a 10% paycut, except my MD who took a 27% pay cut.

Since the governement and the other "ya ya boo" wasterels in parliament have lost the country BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS in the last year alone, perhaps they can take a pay cut proportional to the losses they incurred the taxpayer?

I would dearly love to publicly address the pigs on behalf of the other animals on the farm and explain that they are NOT more equal than us!

_shel · 14-10-2009, 7:12 PM

I love this blog

just what DH and I have been saying for weeks. I'm now waiting to hear from my MP (not on the list of scandalous claimants) to see if she will help with apparant £3000 overpayment which we claimed legitimatly and were paid under the given rules.

We didnt twist those rules in order to gain hundreds of thousands of pounds, property and to avoid paying other taxes.

We claimed legitimatly and just so happened to have a lot of changes (they were informed of within the rules) in that year. They really have no idea how the goal posts are moved every year for thousands of tax credit claimants so why should they be any different.

I just can not believe some of them are airing their view on TV and radio, refusing to pay and some talking about legal action. Whilst at the same time announcing pay freezes on public servants, bailing out banks instead of the working man.

It makes their "Targeting Benefit Theives" campaign such a two faced sham.

baz chaz · 14-10-2009, 8:06 PM

MP's ........ they still don't get it do they

jenaimepastacopine · 15-10-2009, 8:14 PM

I'm sorry but I totally disagree, tax credits and MPs expenses are not similar whatsoever. The families that you write about make their tax credit claim entirely honestly, and as you say, even follow the golden rule of telling HMRC about "changes in circumstances". These people are acting totally morally and honestly.

MPs must have know at the time that whilst their claims were technically within the rules, they were utterly immoral. This is the whole point, and even though it is unfair to go back and retrospectively force MP's to pay back approved claims, they should have known better in the first place.

I am not surprised that some MPs don't get this. I am very surprised that Martin doesn't seem to either.

TWINKLE · 15-10-2009, 9:02 PM

This is exactly what I was thinking this morning - the government aren't long in requesting money owed to them to be paid back immediately. I had a heated discussion with a rude lady at a tax credits office not so long ago who informed me that they now didn't want me to update them of any change of circumstances until the yearly review form came out form now on - then presumably they would ask me to repay a debt to them of a considerable amount! (Remember all the money spent on ads encouraging people to ALWAYS let HMRC know about any change in circumstances?) I was so angry with her making me feel like a criminal that I pointed out to her that the government weren't in a position to talk as they were in the same boat with the MPs expenses scandal!

Mistymaid · 16-10-2009, 7:35 AM

Although some of the MP's expenses that are being claimed back could have been said at the time to be 'within the rules,' (unethical or not) a lot of these claims have been way outside of the rules - claiming for mortgages where none exists, or buying the wife a new pair of glasses, or one case I saw where an MP was paying his daughter under an assumed name.
These aren't errors of judgement or within the rules and considering the number of claims made that were clearly 'outside' of the rules, I shudder to think about the level of moral standards of people who have so much power.
I always thought it was low, but not that low.
Cringeworthy people.

zygurat789 · 16-10-2009, 3:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenaimepastacopine

MPs must have know at the time that whilst their claims were technically within the rules, they were utterly immoral. This is the whole point, and even though it is unfair to go back and retrospectively force MP's to pay back approved claims, they should have known better in the first place.

I am not surprised that some MPs don't get this. I am very surprised that Martin doesn't seem to either.

Morality differs from one person to another. You only have to look at the "Moral Dilemma" boards on this site to see that. If it is within the rules then it is technically within the rules, it is black and white.

What I have always objected to is that the MPs made the rules in the first place, and very generous they were too, and the blatant fraud ie claiming for interest on a non-existant mortgage.

okay79 · 18-10-2009, 9:22 PM

Martin Lewis for Prime Minister!

sandraroffey · 19-10-2009, 6:32 AM

when they put their claims in, they knew exactly what they were doing.

makes you wonder what has gone on before over many years, that no one has known about.

i think its called taking the p***. or theft, or fraud. the likes of us would have been arrested and charged.

tomissocial · 20-10-2009, 12:28 PM

Hello all, I see you have been talking about the MPs' expenses scandal.

I wanted to let you know about a campaign we've launched, called Open Up, to make politics more open and transparent.

In particular we are calling on the public to sign our petition for open primaries which we want in place by the next election.

The petition is at openupnow.org and we've had some pretty funny videos made by the comedy legend, John Lloyd, on our YouTube page too.

You can also join us on Twitter and Facebook.

As this is something I know a fair few people here are passionate about I thought you might like to support us!

I look forward to hearing your views, thanks for reading.

Tom

zyonchaos · 21-10-2009, 12:36 AM

You may call it taking the p155 and theft and fraud, but they were using the rules to suit their needs. At the time they were entitled legally (not morally) to claim all that they claimed.

Yes its a p155 take that they got away with it for so long, but no I dont think they should be made to retrospectively pay it all back. The rules should be tightened down to actual expenses incurred and receipts should be provided of course. The second home scam could be binned straight away. If the barrack block accomodation the British forces have to live in is so great. Give every MP a room they can use when in London, official functions can be held at Official Party HQ's or at downing street.

p.s. when I say give them barrack block accomodation I mean the sh1te we have had to put up with for years, not the so called good accomodation they are s..l..o..w..l..y.. supplying us with now.