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MSE News and House Prices...
MSE_Martin
Posts: 8,272 Money Saving Expert
Just a quick note.
There's another thread by poster Carolt called
The link goes to a story about house prices.
I have responded in that thread but to make it clear wanted to start a new thread with my post at the top so it doesn't get lost (i've closed the other thread and lined here).
My response...
"I've just seen this thread. And I think its important to understand this is quite wide of the mark.
MSE news is a different beast to MSE main. The aim is to provide a wider viewpoint on news related to the MSE audience - unless an MSE person is quoted it doesn't represent opinion. (that opinion comes in our guides and the weekly email).
Its perfectly possible to do a news story on something that has the opposite view to mine or the sites as part of news.
You'll note this story had a headline in quotes to show it wasnt fact but reporting the opinion of a respected, but polemic, commentator.
If we had
"Bank charges reclaims are nonesense"
And a story how the BBA was saying bank charges reclaiming shouldn't happen - that wouldn't mean it was this sites view, it'd mean it was reporting the news relating to a story
And this story is the same thing - its reporting the views of a commentator - that doesn't mean we agree with them - in fact the article goes through other's opposite opinions too.
As it happens (and if you'd seen GMTV this morning I was saying exactly this) I think its far too early to call that house prices are over and there's a risk we're in a W not an L shape. The current end to the falls is about seller supply shortage, and if people flood in we could see a return.
However I'm not a house price commentator - its not my core subject - so I wouldn't deem what I say as worthy of a news story.
So has MSE lost its impartiality? No not on house prices (as I also said today on GMTV its wrong to assume house prices rising is good and falling is bad - for some its the other way round).
However overall I do hope MSE isn't impartial.
We are a campaigning agenda'd website - outside of MSE News the aim is to show people how to save money, and fight what we consider to be financial injustice - partiality is the core remit - certainly on bank charges, PPI reclaiming, cutting debt costs we have an opinion and we go for it.
Martin
There's another thread by poster Carolt called
MSE loses claims to impartiality. Pah.
The link goes to a story about house prices.
I have responded in that thread but to make it clear wanted to start a new thread with my post at the top so it doesn't get lost (i've closed the other thread and lined here).
My response...
"I've just seen this thread. And I think its important to understand this is quite wide of the mark.
MSE news is a different beast to MSE main. The aim is to provide a wider viewpoint on news related to the MSE audience - unless an MSE person is quoted it doesn't represent opinion. (that opinion comes in our guides and the weekly email).
Its perfectly possible to do a news story on something that has the opposite view to mine or the sites as part of news.
You'll note this story had a headline in quotes to show it wasnt fact but reporting the opinion of a respected, but polemic, commentator.
If we had
"Bank charges reclaims are nonesense"
And a story how the BBA was saying bank charges reclaiming shouldn't happen - that wouldn't mean it was this sites view, it'd mean it was reporting the news relating to a story
And this story is the same thing - its reporting the views of a commentator - that doesn't mean we agree with them - in fact the article goes through other's opposite opinions too.
As it happens (and if you'd seen GMTV this morning I was saying exactly this) I think its far too early to call that house prices are over and there's a risk we're in a W not an L shape. The current end to the falls is about seller supply shortage, and if people flood in we could see a return.
However I'm not a house price commentator - its not my core subject - so I wouldn't deem what I say as worthy of a news story.
So has MSE lost its impartiality? No not on house prices (as I also said today on GMTV its wrong to assume house prices rising is good and falling is bad - for some its the other way round).
However overall I do hope MSE isn't impartial.
We are a campaigning agenda'd website - outside of MSE News the aim is to show people how to save money, and fight what we consider to be financial injustice - partiality is the core remit - certainly on bank charges, PPI reclaiming, cutting debt costs we have an opinion and we go for it.
Martin
Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.
Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.
Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.
Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
0
Comments
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Thanks Martin, for taking the time to reply to my original post.
I'm not sure your point about MSE News being separate from MSE main is one that would be recognised by most of the site's users; I think if they see 'MSE News' as a headline, they will assume that that's the site's (and by implication, your) take on the matter.
Re the use of quotation marks - technically, of course, it means it's not stated as a fact, rather a report of someone else's opinion. However, again, in real life, I'm not sure that all readers are as adept as you at separating fact from reported opinion.
Maybe if all users, and by implication all the British population, had the level of financial literacy you credit them with, you could hang your hat up and feel your work was done?
Still, points taken, and it's good to see you engage with users' concerns.
And your views on house prices are interesting to hear, too.0 -
Thanks for your reply Carol
I'm afraid I can't agree though. This isn't about financial literacy, its about literacy. Even if people missed the "quotes" in the headline the first line says...
"A leading housing market commentator believes prices will rise this year as the market has already reached its bottom. "
That very obviously states who's opinion the story is about. The piece then goes on to state counter opinions. It's headed in the MSE News section, is written as a news report, is bylined by someone other than me, is not voiced in the first person.
I don't think people would consider this to be the sites view any more than they would consider it to be the BBC's view if it reported it.
Had the story said "Martin Lewis says house price crash is over" then it would be different (and that format was used in news recently in a bank charges story).
So while I appreciate your point, I hope you understand that the new MSE News brand is a very different beast to the main site, and doing a different job and we are trying to communicate it as such.
Martin Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 0000 -
MSE_Martin wrote: »Thanks for your reply Carol
I'm afraid I can't agree though. This isn't about financial literacy, its about literacy. Even if people missed the "quotes" in the headline the first line says...
Your a braver man than I am Martin (that's why I edited my post:))0 -
I'm not sure your point about MSE News being separate from MSE main is one that would be recognised by most of the site's users; I think if they see 'MSE News' as a headline, they will assume that that's the site's (and by implication, your) take on the matter.
Re the use of quotation marks - technically, of course, it means it's not stated as a fact, rather a report of someone else's opinion. However, again, in real life, I'm not sure that all readers are as adept as you at separating fact from reported opinion.
If every news story, commentary or editorial starts having to be written to lowest-common-denominator standards then the we really are on a hiding to nothing.
I think the majority of the populace is perfectly capable of differentiating between someones opinion and factual information.0 -
It's good to hear different points of view in the news, so I don't have a problem with Guy Anker giving both sides of the story.
Describing Ray Boulger as a "leading housing market commentator" might be a bit much, though. This is just a mortgage broker encouraging people to run out and get a mortgage. To be fair, Ray's vested interest is mentioned in the article.
Anyway, live and let live, I say.0 -
If every news story, commentary or editorial starts having to be written to lowest-common-denominator standards then the we really are on a hiding to nothing.
I think the majority of the populace is perfectly capable of differentiating between someones opinion and factual information.
I think this has more to do with carolt's desperation to buy a house at the cheapest possible price than anything to do with the symantics or grammatical construction of a housing related headline.
Martin has had a sample of what it is like to be positive on the housing, recession and economy boards - you're set upon by the resident 'bears' who make personal remarks and question your integrity rather than to address the point you made in any constructive or logical way.
The sooner Martin clamps down on these extremists, the more balanced the debate will be. No doubt I'll be 'set upon' for expressing these comments, and I'm sorry if people think they're unfair - they represent a personal viewpoint I have formed after a few months of contributing to this particular board.
Cue numerous personal comments and accusations of sock puppetry... :rolleyes: It's just their sad little way."I can hear you whisperin', children, so I know you're down there. I can feel myself gettin' awful mad. I'm out of patience, children. I'm coming to find you now." - Harry Powell, Night of the Hunter, 1955.0 -
Harry_Powell wrote: »I think this has more to do with carolt's desperation to buy a house at the cheapest possible price than anything to do with the symantics or grammatical construction of a housing related headline.
I thought you too were looking to buy sooner or later???
Are you not wanting to pay as little as possible???
:rolleyes:0 -
JonnyBravo wrote: »I thought you too were looking to buy sooner or later???
Are you not wanting to pay as little as possible???
:rolleyes:
I'm still looking and I do obviously want to pay the lowest price possible. The difference is that I refuse to get hysterical when someone posts anything positive. The market will go where the market goes, despite the attempted media/government ramping and despite any bearish hysterics on here.
I do value lively, balanced and reasoned debate, which I believe is often stifled by a few people on here. Whatever we discuss, the housing market will find it's own level. Even if Martin did declare that "the crash is over", it wouldn't be. We've a long way to go yet."I can hear you whisperin', children, so I know you're down there. I can feel myself gettin' awful mad. I'm out of patience, children. I'm coming to find you now." - Harry Powell, Night of the Hunter, 1955.0 -
Top post Dad. I couldn't agree more.Harry_Powell wrote: »I think this has more to do with carolt's desperation to buy a house at the cheapest possible price than anything to do with the symantics or grammatical construction of a housing related headline.
Martin has had a sample of what it is like to be positive on the housing, recession and economy boards - you're set upon by the resident 'bears' who make personal remarks and question your integrity rather than to address the point you made in any constructive or logical way.
The sooner Martin clamps down on these extremists, the more balanced the debate will be. No doubt I'll be 'set upon' for expressing these comments, and I'm sorry if people think they're unfair - they represent a personal viewpoint I have formed after a few months of contributing to this particular board.
Cue numerous personal comments and accusations of sock puppetry... :rolleyes: It's just their sad little way.
BTW Welcome back.0 -
I think you and the MSE team do great work Martin, but I think there's an argument here. Some of the headlines can be a bit sensationalist. I remember the RBS/NatWest story: 'RBS and Natwest to charge for over-the-counter withdrawals' the headline read. It turned out to be a bit misleading, as it only applied to cash withdrawals in branch from other banking organizations (including Natwest/RBS), and like many others I was surprised that they didn't charge for this already.
I'm not having a dig, like I say it's a great thing that you're educating people on matters that are ignored in school, and parents can't always advise on (because they were never educated about it themselves), and it's great that people are being kept up-to-date; but I do think not being totally accurate in headlines detracts from the credibility of otherwise well-researched and informative articles.“I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse0
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