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[MSE Lawrence]

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.

Read Martin's 'ThinkJessica Campaign: Fighting Scam mail' Blog.

Click reply to discuss below.

[cheapscate]

This is a really worthwhile campaign that highlights how vulnerable people can be preyed upon by unscrupulous people. MSE already discusses 0870 numbers and scam competitions on the vents and warnings section but perhaps a sticky thread could be put in there with deatails of the ThinkJessica campaign.

[MadMac]

Cheapscate, I agree and think that is a good idea. As to the moral dilemma re the number issue, could the MSE charity assist not with money, but with the know-how clout and connections to get a more suitable number made available at a suitably minimal cost? With Martin behind it I'm sure that could be achieved, curing both problems - a cheaper rate number and the chance to help in a suitable way.

[Edinburghlass]

I remember seeing this lady on the TV and I do hope that Martin can help in any way possible, their story is horrifying.

[mikki-b]

Maybe since the royal mail have a legal obligation to deliver all mail, perhaps they should consider funding an 0800 number for this.

Just a thought.
Mikk

[poppy10]

I spoke about the 0871 issue, which is in her words “not something I knew about, I’ll try and get it changed”

Her website makes it clear she knows all about the 0871 issue and is using it as a revenue source. She'll be getting paid at least 4p a minute.

If she makes the campaign a registered charity she can get one of the new 0303 numbers for as little as £10 a month - it won't take much in donations to fund that. Heck, I'll put up the money myself. Calls to 0303 numbers are included in free monthly allowances from mobiles and landlines.

[sdooley]

I never knew Reader's Digest was such a scam.

[JimmyTheWig]

Maybe ask them to put a note on the posters saying that the high cost of the call helps fund the campaign?

Also, if that is the exact wording of the poster, make sure they use "their" rather than "there"!

[MSE Martin]

Originally Posted by poppy10

Her website makes it clear she knows all about the 0871 issue and is using it as a revenue source. She'll be getting paid at least 4p a minute.

If she makes the campaign a registered charity she can get one of the new 0303 numbers for as little as £10 a month - it won't take much in donations to fund that. Heck, I'll put up the money myself. Calls to 0303 numbers are included in free monthly allowances from mobiles and landlines.

According to her when I spoke to her, she isnt making any money from the phone line - that doesn't surprise me quite a few small companies sign up to these thinking its good its "free". So while she's aware of the cost for calling, I don't think (or so she said) that she was aware of teh revenue sharing issue.

Martin

[MothballsWallet]

It's a worthwhile one, Martin - also non-geographical numbers have to terminate on a geographical one anyway, so if Marilyn can get the geographical number out there as well, it'll help.

[irrelevant]

Originally Posted by poppy10

If she makes the campaign a registered charity she can get one of the new 0303 numbers for as little as £10 a month - it won't take much in donations to fund that. Heck, I'll put up the money myself. Calls to 0303 numbers are included in free monthly allowances from mobiles and landlines.

No need to be a charity, and no need to pay that much - you can get 0333 numbers for £1.15/month.. Free delivery of calls via VoIP to a phone or server of your choice, or, possibly more usefully in this case, to voicemail with a customisable message.

[irrelevant]

Originally Posted by MothballsWallet

It's a worthwhile one, Martin - also non-geographical numbers have to terminate on a geographical one anyway, so if Marilyn can get the geographical number out there as well, it'll help.

Not always. If the telco who "owns" the NGN handles the call internally, as is the case with most recorded information systems, or even pure voicemail or fax-to-email gateways, then it won't need to have a geographic number - they are only required if they have to send a call back out onto the PSTN for it to get to where it's going. If it doesn't go any further, then there is no need for another number.

[MSE Martin]

Just to say on this - while the 0871 number is an important issue. Lets not lose site of the bigger scambusting picture which is frankly much more important. I know Marilyn was reading this and a little disheartened by some of it - remember she's set this up off her own back - isn't a charity professional and totally believes in what shes doing.

Seeing any negatives about the project she is doing out of personal passion is difficult for the first time (i know that from running this site) so please do put it in context.

Martin

[irrelevant]

Yes, sorry to have helped hijack the thread.... but 0871 is amost a scam in itself..

The campaign is worthy, and reading the website is heart-rending. I've actually managed to fend off a small handful of fairly low level scam letters that arrived at my in-laws a while back, and I hope they are now sufficiently well educated to refer anything similar to us for checking... It's just too easy to get taken in, though, especially if you are not aware that these things exist. I applaud Marilyn for doing this!

[cheapscate]

Originally Posted by MSE Martin

I know Marilyn was reading this and a little disheartened by some of it .
Martin

Marilyn your campaign and your effort is really worthwhile - don't be disheartened about this thread sometimes they stray off the point for a bit but that isn't a reflection upon the importance of your message.

By the way there is a link to a Number 10 petition on the website to try and get vulnerable people protected from this practice - so we can all do something positive, to try and get changes made, by signing it.

[SunnySusie]

Yes, so back on topic, yikes that site makes the point doesn't it. Must confess I am one of those "I can't believe people fall for it" types, but seeing a real story offers a new insight. Is there any action to be taken against the perpetrator, ie is it all technically legal? Or is there some kind of harassment angle. Would be nice to see them answer to all this.

Good luck with the campaign.

[Marilyn B]

Hi
Thankyou to everybody who sent emails of support to me via my website Think Jessica
I was a little bit upset that people thought that the 0871 phone number was a way of making profit.
I took it on the advice of B.T but it has proved to be a nightmare.
The line rental is so expensive and the odd 4ps per minute dont even scratch the surface.
Anyway Martin is helping me and hopefully I will be able to get a free phone number.
Whatever happens the 0871 will be history when the contract runs out in August.
If you have time please,please visit the Gallery page on my website and watch the short videos,
I am getting reports weekly from agencies like Age Concern, CAB, Trading Standards etc of chronic victims, but the ones that concern me the most are from posties all over the country who tell of obvious victims on their rounds who get 30/40/50 over 100 scam letters a day.
Remember that only those who respond with cash get such large amounts(see what is a suckers list on the Scam mail page)
If only the posties could sound the alarm ie; put details on a form and hand it in to their managers.
We could get councilors out to them (as you will understand after reading my mothers story..lip service is no help whatsoever)
please tell your older family members Jessica,s story.
Who knows whose minds will one day start to fail, these evil criminals are hunting down and abducting the minds of thousands.
They are all silent victims and many live alone and nobody knows or cares about what they are doing.
Thankyou Martin for your support and bringing it to the attention of those who look at your website.
Chronic victims are not stupid, greedy or deserve to be scammed they are our older generation who are trusting, internet less and dont doubt the voice of authority.
They are emptying Bank accounts and selling homes to keep up with the scammers who befriend,trick and threaten them day in day out....
Oh and one of the latest scams is an unpaid utility bill that threatens court action unless paid within 7 days!
The scammer rings up and asks which utility providers you use.
The letter follows(from a bogus debt recovery agency) and elderly people are paying up hand over fist !!!
The bogus clairvoyants have had victims sectioned under the mental health act.
Thanks again Marilyn Baldwin x

P.s 22,000 ELDERLY AND VULNERABLE PEOPLE REPLIED TO ONE SCAM IN LESS THAN A WEEK, all sent cash amounting to £500,000 thats around £35 million a year.
I helped SOCA with the media, all 22,000 are on suckers lists and will be receiving piles of other scam letters a day.
SOCA returned the cash and a letter but remember for the thousands like Jessica it will be to little to late.
Saying that without a change to law and the co operation of R.M what else can we do?

[MSE Martin]

THanks for posting Marilyn, and continued good luck with your charity

[andyrules]

Chronic victims are not stupid, greedy or deserve to be scammed they are our older generation who are trusting,

So right with that, they are often out the 'loop' with communications.

My 80 year old mum kept on receiving letters telling her she had won a prize, and only had to ring the number to claim it. 0870 of course. She simply didn't understand that the call would cost her dearly, (BT is trustworthy) it would be set to maximum time and she would doubtless not win the cash sum indicated.

So she rang the number, held on for 10 minutes or so before obtaining details of her 'prize' - a cheap necklace that actually never arrived. When her phone bill came the call showed clearly that it had cost her around £10, and she had received nothing. I just hope she has never sent cash.

I take that as a useful wake-up, now she is less trusting and believes me when I try to warn her that there is a different kind of crook now. She also had one of the Nigerian letters, but thankfully binned that.

[Valli]

It takes those of us who ARE a bit more savvy and a bit less vulnerable to fight against this type of scam.
Because one day WE will be vulnerable and WE will need someone to look out for US.
Well done Marilyn. Not just The Derbyshire Times now...a fitting tribute to your Mum if you manage to save other people from what she went through.