Kaupthing IOM

Thanks everyone for their input, and especially Ben (Occamsrazor) for your invaluable contributions backed up with links. I was too busy today to keep abreast with things, and what's happened this afternoon is a potential disaster for me.

I agree with Ben that it would be useful to keep the discussion on one thread, preferably this one and not the one entitled 'Kaupthing IoM' (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1206895

The most optimistic swing I can put on things is this:

In their own words, "Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited is a wholy owned subsidiary of Kaupthing Bank hf. Kaupthing Bank is a Northern European bank offering integrated financial services to companies, institutional investors and individuals."

This suggests that they may be independent of KSF (UK), being a direct subsidiary of Kaupthing hf, and not a subsidiary of the U.K. subsidiary. (But how one finds that out, who knows).

This weekend the Icelandic govt. seems to have decided to sacrifice Glitnir and Landsbanki (parent of IceSave) in the hope of saving the most viable and liquid of the three, Kaupthing hf.

Part of this strategy must have been to sell off the more viable of Kaupthing hf's overseas subsidiaries, which probably then numbered both KFS(UK) and KFS(IoM).

The fact that KFS(UK) was placed in administration is worrying (or was it only KaupthingEdge(UK? this seems uncertain; as is the relationship between the two). Nevertheless the fact that ING (a prudent and solvent Dutch bank) saw fit to step in is encouraging, though it would have been more so if they had simply bought KFS(UK) or KaupthingEdge(UK) or both before it or them were placed in administration.

One of the reasons for K(UK) being placed in administration is undoubtedly the run on savings that has occurred since the weekend, as charted graphically on this website.

The questions now are: How healthy is K(IoM) in general, and are KFS(IoM) and KaupthingEdge(IoM) discrete entities in the same way that KFS(UK) and KaupthingEdge(UK) seem to have been?

And is KSF(IoM) or is it not a subsidiary of KSF(UK)?

It seems to me that there is a chance that some strong bank might find it advantageous to buy KSF(IoM). But how great that chance is (snowball in hell) I simply cannot judge.

This is simply speculation; anyone with knowledge please post! (with chapter and verse if you can).

I've had enormous problems logging in and posting; and my has not only landed in the wrong thread, but is outdated by the posts above.

PS. I am in Holland, which is very jittery after IceSave.nl collapsed yesterday (Kaupthing's threatened presence here never materialised).

What's interesting is there is absolutely nothing in the Dutch news or websites about the ING taking over the KaupthingEdge(UK) deposits.

ING is here considered a sort of equivalent of HSBC, i.e. a safe haven, though RaboBank has better credentials. But Fortis was also considered a safe haven and look what happened to them.

PPS. I tried to move my money (a not insubstantial amount) out of KSF(IoM) on 29th September. But I was told that the phone/fax facility I had set up with Derbyshire(IoM) before it was eaten up by KFS was no longer valid, and I would have to do so by letter. As things were less urgent than now, I did not register that letter (which still has not been acknowledged). If I have lost it all, I will have to decide whether to spend more money on lawyers in a hopeless pursuit...

@Minotaur - see some comments on your post above in bold below:

Minotaur wrote: »

In their own words, "Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited is a wholy owned subsidiary of Kaupthing Bank hf. Kaupthing Bank is a Northern European bank offering integrated financial services to companies, institutional investors and individuals."

This suggests that they may be independent of KSF (UK), being a direct subsidiary of Kaupthing hf, and not a subsidiary of the U.K. subsidiary. (But how one finds that out, who knows). Quote from IOM regulator: A spokesman for the Isle of Man Financial Supervision Commission said: 'A press announcement by HM Treasury in the UK has stated that Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander in the UK has been placed into administration.

'Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (Isle of Man) Ltd, a licensed bank in the Island, is directly owned by Kaupthing Bank hf of Iceland. It is not formally part of the UK sub-group. " http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Kaupthing-Singer-amp-Friedlander-Isle.4572764.jp


This weekend the Icelandic govt. seems to have decided to sacrifice Glitnir and Landsbanki (parent of IceSave) in the hope of saving the most viable and liquid of the three, Kaupthing hf.

Part of this strategy must have been to sell off the more viable of Kaupthing hf's overseas subsidiaries, which probably then numbered both KFS(UK) and KFS(IoM).

The fact that KFS(UK) was placed in administration is worrying (or was it only KaupthingEdge(UK? this seems uncertain; as is the relationship between the two). Nevertheless the fact that ING (a prudent and solvent Dutch bank) saw fit to step in is encouraging, though it would have been more so if they had simply bought KFS(UK) or KaupthingEdge(UK) or both before it or them were placed in administration. Although I don't disagree, I think that the international politics of the situation also played a part - I think A Darling was mightily p*ssed off about the Icelandic govt not honouring their deposit guarantee to Icesave depositors. Also, I have no idea of the discount attached to the purchase price paid by ING Direct (or what happened to that purchase price?!)

One of the reasons for K(UK) being placed in administration is undoubtedly the run on savings that has occurred since the weekend, as charted graphically on this website.

The questions now are: How healthy is K(IoM) in general, and are KFS(IoM) and KaupthingEdge(IoM) discrete entities in the same way that KFS(UK) and KaupthingEdge(UK) seem to have been? I can't answer the first question, but I'm not sure they are discrete entities - the Treasury's press release talks about "KSF's Edge deposit business" as if it's just a line of business, not a separate entity and they probably (but not necessarily) adopted the same business model in IOM.

And is KSF(IoM) or is it not a subsidiary of KSF(UK)? No, it isn't - see above

Minotaur wrote: »

Thanks, Knife Edge, and Occam!

The big question that I haven't been able to establis is: is Kaupthing hf in administration/liquidation, or only its UK subsidiary.

That's what I'm now going to look for!

You're very welcome. There's no mention of K hf being in difficulty on the Icelandic financial regulator's site: http://www.fme.is/?PageID=146 but then I guess there wouldn't be .

So it's only it's UK "arm" or "division"as it's being referred to, that this applies to, as far as I can tell. Let us know if you unearth anything else.

I am also interested to know the outcome of the KSF (IOM) board meeting that was being held earlier this pm. Not least because it will impact on my travel plans tomorrow!