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To Cap or Not... more info and central discussion
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MSE_Martin
Posts: 8,272 Money Saving Expert


in Energy
As always, when there's a big MoneySaving issues and I'm making a call on something.
I know there's lots of discussion around the forums, so I wanted to try and put it all in one place, and set my 'capping' stall out in a little more detail... though do also read the Cheap Energy guide and this weeks tip for a full explanation
Why cap
This is explained in detail in the article and the guide.... in a nutshell the answer is "cap now to lock in at current prices as prices are very strongly predicted to rise by up to 60% by the end of the year".
The industry, including british gas have deliberately signalled in reports that energy prices are going up to "maintain current margins" a report by Centrica two weeks ago predicted 60% price rises. This info is backed up by all the relevant analysts and comparison sites and energywatch and concerns of Ofcom.
The point is simple energy prices need to go up that much to maintain profits due to the wholesale gas price rise. I don't say this to justify it, its outrageous these companies make record profits at such times, but we can't ignore that it is happening.
The maths...
We are expecting price rises this month of c. 20% (EDF has already gone up 17% for gas 22% for elec - the others are VERY likely to follow).
For the vast majority of people,capping now will mean they save as soon as the caps in place. If you're switching supplier it takes 2 months to happen, so you won't be paying the cap price until then and by then most or all of the big six providers are likely to have put prices up.
A rise of 20% is enough for most people to be much better off capping than not capping - only the very few who were on the ultimate cheapest tariffs won't gain by this (and even then they may not lose, just be on roughly the same).
Yet the VERY strong predictions from the industry, energywatch and analysts is there will then be ANOTHER round of price rises in January (not in Decemebr as its bad PR for energy companies to put prices up pre-Christmas).
At that point, if it happens (and it is always if), those who cap now will be paying 20% - 40% less than those who stick with the cheapest tariffs.
If that doesn't happen the vast majority (c. 98%) will still have saved money anyway and a couple of percent will have not saved or at worse been costed a negligible amount.
Now to reply to some of the, shall we say less polite comments...
A. Do I know what I'm talking about?
Its my job to make a call on this scenario. Three months ago I predicted the cheap caps would disappear, all of the cheapest then have gone. Two months ago i said "last chance on the remaining cheap one" it went two days later.
A month ago someone on this forum said I was talking nonesense about energy price rises, I said "I will put £1,000 to charity that one of the major suppliers puts prices up by more than 5% by the end of July" - EDF put its prices up 22% last week.
Over the weekend I put an email out saying cheapest caps going - cap quickly. Yesterday the Scottish Power cheap cap was pulled from the comparison services.
I dont pretend I can always get it right, but I do my best to tell people how to save money and have to make judgement calls. So far on this one its going well. It has to be said Im not the only one saying to cap - all (as far as i know) the comparison sites and switching analysts are in agreement... perhaps I'm just the loudest.
For those who watched on GM-TV, this is a complex issue and I have 3 minutes to explain it, sometimes i make it clear (i think yesteday I did it well) and sometimes the nature of it means its not so clear (i was annoyed with the way I explained it this morning). That's why I go to such effort to explain it on the site in a way I hope people understand.
B. Aren't I "playing into the energy companies hands".
I find this a very strange deduction.
Certainly when I did a note two months ago warning that the "cheapest energy cap was due to end and grab it quick", I got feedback that the energy company were not happy and it'd cost them a fortune with all the people going to them.
Self evidentally the reason they're getting rid of the cheap caps now is because they're not economical and with price rises coming, people capping now at cheap prices means they will lose money. If they were economical then they would keep selling them.
C. I do this for vested interest reasons.
Thankfully its just two people, who've said something this insulting, amount the 10,000s reading the nergy guides now. I have done my job and run this site for a long time, and ALWAYS consider what I believe to be the best way to save money.
The links to the comparison services are affiliate links (as explained in how this site is financed which is linked on every page), yet that has never impacted the recommendation.
First of all, when these two caps go, as I've done preivously i will switch the traffic light to 'DONT SWITCH' as then its time to wait until all the price rises have happened. This is not exactly the action of someone desperate to get people to switch and certainly not something you'll see the comparison sites do.
You will also note while the comparison sites have dropped the Scottish Power cap, its linked directly from the article (with no affiliate)
And finally if i were after pushing switches as my priority - a capping is a nightmare, once people cap they stick on that tariff until it ends. The opposite of what anyone interested in churning switching wants.
I can't expect everyone to agree with me, that's my judgement call, but I present the information factualy, and give my opinion, and I would hope that is respected.
I hope this clears things up.
Martin
I know there's lots of discussion around the forums, so I wanted to try and put it all in one place, and set my 'capping' stall out in a little more detail... though do also read the Cheap Energy guide and this weeks tip for a full explanation
Why cap
This is explained in detail in the article and the guide.... in a nutshell the answer is "cap now to lock in at current prices as prices are very strongly predicted to rise by up to 60% by the end of the year".
The industry, including british gas have deliberately signalled in reports that energy prices are going up to "maintain current margins" a report by Centrica two weeks ago predicted 60% price rises. This info is backed up by all the relevant analysts and comparison sites and energywatch and concerns of Ofcom.
The point is simple energy prices need to go up that much to maintain profits due to the wholesale gas price rise. I don't say this to justify it, its outrageous these companies make record profits at such times, but we can't ignore that it is happening.
The maths...
We are expecting price rises this month of c. 20% (EDF has already gone up 17% for gas 22% for elec - the others are VERY likely to follow).
For the vast majority of people,capping now will mean they save as soon as the caps in place. If you're switching supplier it takes 2 months to happen, so you won't be paying the cap price until then and by then most or all of the big six providers are likely to have put prices up.
A rise of 20% is enough for most people to be much better off capping than not capping - only the very few who were on the ultimate cheapest tariffs won't gain by this (and even then they may not lose, just be on roughly the same).
Yet the VERY strong predictions from the industry, energywatch and analysts is there will then be ANOTHER round of price rises in January (not in Decemebr as its bad PR for energy companies to put prices up pre-Christmas).
At that point, if it happens (and it is always if), those who cap now will be paying 20% - 40% less than those who stick with the cheapest tariffs.
If that doesn't happen the vast majority (c. 98%) will still have saved money anyway and a couple of percent will have not saved or at worse been costed a negligible amount.
Now to reply to some of the, shall we say less polite comments...
A. Do I know what I'm talking about?
Its my job to make a call on this scenario. Three months ago I predicted the cheap caps would disappear, all of the cheapest then have gone. Two months ago i said "last chance on the remaining cheap one" it went two days later.
A month ago someone on this forum said I was talking nonesense about energy price rises, I said "I will put £1,000 to charity that one of the major suppliers puts prices up by more than 5% by the end of July" - EDF put its prices up 22% last week.
Over the weekend I put an email out saying cheapest caps going - cap quickly. Yesterday the Scottish Power cheap cap was pulled from the comparison services.
I dont pretend I can always get it right, but I do my best to tell people how to save money and have to make judgement calls. So far on this one its going well. It has to be said Im not the only one saying to cap - all (as far as i know) the comparison sites and switching analysts are in agreement... perhaps I'm just the loudest.
For those who watched on GM-TV, this is a complex issue and I have 3 minutes to explain it, sometimes i make it clear (i think yesteday I did it well) and sometimes the nature of it means its not so clear (i was annoyed with the way I explained it this morning). That's why I go to such effort to explain it on the site in a way I hope people understand.
B. Aren't I "playing into the energy companies hands".
I find this a very strange deduction.
Certainly when I did a note two months ago warning that the "cheapest energy cap was due to end and grab it quick", I got feedback that the energy company were not happy and it'd cost them a fortune with all the people going to them.
Self evidentally the reason they're getting rid of the cheap caps now is because they're not economical and with price rises coming, people capping now at cheap prices means they will lose money. If they were economical then they would keep selling them.
C. I do this for vested interest reasons.
Thankfully its just two people, who've said something this insulting, amount the 10,000s reading the nergy guides now. I have done my job and run this site for a long time, and ALWAYS consider what I believe to be the best way to save money.
The links to the comparison services are affiliate links (as explained in how this site is financed which is linked on every page), yet that has never impacted the recommendation.
First of all, when these two caps go, as I've done preivously i will switch the traffic light to 'DONT SWITCH' as then its time to wait until all the price rises have happened. This is not exactly the action of someone desperate to get people to switch and certainly not something you'll see the comparison sites do.
You will also note while the comparison sites have dropped the Scottish Power cap, its linked directly from the article (with no affiliate)
And finally if i were after pushing switches as my priority - a capping is a nightmare, once people cap they stick on that tariff until it ends. The opposite of what anyone interested in churning switching wants.
I can't expect everyone to agree with me, that's my judgement call, but I present the information factualy, and give my opinion, and I would hope that is respected.
I hope this clears things up.
Martin
Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.
Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.
Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.
Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
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Comments
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I don't think anyone is questioning your motives - from a personal point of view it was your OTT anger on GMTV that annoyed me, in the context of perpetual scaremongering by the media.
You don't have to justify yourself, but when you start making out that people are wrong/stupid for not taking/questioning your advice, it's a little upsetting.
Keep up the good work, in the main it's obviously working.0 -
You don't have to justify yourself, but when you start making out that people are wrong/stupid for not taking/questioning your advice, it's a little upsetting.
If I've ever done that I wholeheartedly apologise. Its never been conscious and is the last thing on earth I'd ever want to do.
As for GMTV - I dont know what you're talking about. I found it a frustrating slot this morning as things were being confused, not due to people not taking my advice. I am very passionate about my job and desparate to get people to cap... you miss the fact I'm being told to 'wind up' when I know the point hasnt come across clearly yet... its very frustrating within the time slot.
Thanks for the nice words though
MartinMartin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 0000 -
I'm with Atlantic and have been very very happy with them but they dont offer a capped rate and I'm so fed up with all the changes I keep having to go through it's really hard to make the effort.
To date, I have changed Insurance company for my car, my house contents and buildings, breakdown cover, my bank accounts, my ISP etc etc. I am sick and tired of doing comparisons, addid up all my units for gas and electricity is a blo*dy nightmare. I have 3 bands of rates on my electric and 2 bands on the gas to calculate. I have moved savings around to get better rates and right now all I want is for the Companies to read this and PLEASE start rewarding your loyal customers who DONT want to keep moving.
Martin why can't you do something about this and get Companies to pay us to stay with them - surely thats the way forward rather than all this moving from company to company all the time.................I'm exhausted0 -
Whenever I've given a presentation, there is always someone that will say, "You should have said this, you should have said that". People always have opinions.
Some people like Martin being animated / enthusiastic when he delivers his message, some people don't.
I believe the important thing is the core message that Martin gives - he recommends we should cap based upon all of the information available to him. I don't have the time to go through all of the relevant reports - Martin does that for us and provides us with a summary of the findings.
As he himself has said, he cannot guarantee he will always get it 100% right, he can only give recommendations based upon all of the information available; however he hasn't done too badly so far.
Personally that is more than good enough for me and I applaud Martin for the message he is giving.
I was planning to cap / fix a couple of months ago but it never happened. Two days ago I fixed with Scottish Power and received £72 cashback via a cashback website.
As a result of this site - combined with the cashback sites, I will make approximately £1000 this year that I wouldn't have made otherwise.
To me that is an important saving and I thank Martin very much for his contribution.0 -
I don't know what to do!
I want to cap, but we have not long moved house and I have never paid for gas before. I haven't got a clue how much we will spend so will I definetly be better off going with Scottish power? How do I know how much to set up a dd for? I am currently with E.ON on EnergyGuarantee 3 plan and 4 plan??? plus gas0 -
Maidenover wrote: »...
Martin why can't you do something about this and get Companies to pay us to stay with them - surely thats the way forward rather than all this moving from company to company all the time.................I'm exhausted
These are strategic decisions that each company takes in order to maximise profits. Companies are relying on people not bothering to switch because it is too much hassle - thus leaving them on the poorer rates (whether for electricity/gas, savings accounts or anything else).
I'm sure Martin is doing all he can, however to change the strategic approach of large multi-national organisations would take a lot of work.0 -
I don't know what to do!
I want to cap, but we have not long moved house and I have never paid for gas before. I haven't got a clue how much we will spend so will I definetly be better off going with Scottish power? How do I know how much to set up a dd for? I am currently with E.ON on EnergyGuarantee 3 plan and 4 plan??? plus gas
I switched from E-on standard to their Price protection 17 - it took about 30 seconds online (you need to register online 1st) Worth doing as theres no penalty for switching back if the price hikes dont happen.0 -
Martin
I admire all your efforts but do you channel them (as well) in the direction of getting the energy companies to price fairly and in a way thats easier to make the choice for the consumer ?0 -
Thanks Martin
I have just switched gas and electricity from EDF to Scottish Power on line. I did not go through any comparison sites I went straight to SP and got accepted it took 2 mins and I will have saved myself £270 a year.
Thanks alot for being persistant otherwise I would have missed this deal.
Keep up the hard work.
For others out there I got this deal 10 mins ago so its still there if you want it.:j0 -
Thanks Martin
I have just switched gas and electricity from EDF to Scottish Power on line. I did not go through any comparison sites I went straight to SP and got accepted it took 2 mins and I will have saved myself £270 a year.
Thanks alot for being persistant otherwise I would have missed this deal.
Keep up the hard work.
For others out there I got this deal 10 mins ago so its still there if you want it.:j
Is this a capped rate and if so how do you know how much you have saved?
I'm only getting Brit Gas, Eon and EDF coming up on my comparison table offering capped rates and they will cost me between £180 and £540 MORE per year than I'm paying now......unless the prices whizz up as Martin says they will. Then they will possibly save me money but I have no way of forecasting that.0
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