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No certificate - off the road ?

Is it illegal to drive without possession of insurance certificate ? My new one was issued yesterday but I was told they can't guarantee receipt by 16th November due to the uncertainty of further postal strikes.

I imagine lots of people will be in this situation if the strikes continue.
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Comments

  • bryanb
    bryanb Posts: 5,034 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Police can check whether you are insured via the insurance database. It's only illegal to drive while uninsured.
    This is an open forum, anyone can post and I just did !
  • dacouch
    dacouch Posts: 21,636 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    It's not illegal.

    The police tend to rely on the computer in their car which can advise them whether a car is insured or not and is around 95% accurate. If your car shows as being insured on this they will normally accept this. If it does not show they will often ring and confirm whether the car is insured if it's during office hours.

    They will sometimes give you a seven day wonder which is basically you produce your certificate and certain other documents such as driving licence and mot (If applicable) at a police station of your choice.
  • hartcjhart
    hartcjhart Posts: 9,463 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    ask the insurance to fax the policy documents to you
    I :love: MOJACAR
  • pastra
    pastra Posts: 101 Forumite
    Legally you don't have valid insurance until your have the certificate in your hand, but I have never heard of any police force enforcing the law.

    The law would also make sending certificates by email illegal, once again never enforced. I believe the RTA is about to be changed for that purpose.
  • raskazz
    raskazz Posts: 2,877 Forumite
    edited 3 November 2009 at 10:23PM
    pastra wrote: »
    Legally you don't have valid insurance until your have the certificate in your hand, but I have never heard of any police force enforcing the law.

    The law would also make sending certificates by email illegal, once again never enforced. I believe the RTA is about to be changed for that purpose.

    I'm sorry but you're giving more poor information.

    Firstly 'legally', i.e. under contract law, you are covered with or without a certificate, from the effective date and time of the commencement of the policy.

    As far as Road Traffic Act liabilities are concerned, cover attaches as soon as the certificate is posted to the insured or their agent (including brokers).
  • pastra
    pastra Posts: 101 Forumite
    raskazz wrote: »
    I'm sorry but you're giving more poor information.

    Firstly 'legally' you are covered with or without a certificate, from the effective date and time of the commencement of the policy.

    As far as Road Traffic Act liabilities are concerned, cover attaches as soon as the certificate is posted to the insured or their agent (including brokers).

    I am assuming your a Directline underwriter!!!

    the law;

    (1) A policy of insurance shall be of no effect for the purposes of this Part of this Act unless and until there is delivered by the insurer to the person by whom the policy is effected a certificate (in this Part of this Act referred to as a “certificate of insurance”) in the prescribed form and containing such particulars of any conditions subject to which the policy is issued and of any other matters as may be prescribed.


    In the post doesn't count
  • raskazz
    raskazz Posts: 2,877 Forumite
    edited 3 November 2009 at 10:17PM
    pastra wrote: »
    I am assuming your a Directline underwriter!!!

    You assume incorrectly. I work for a much more specialist insurer.
    pastra wrote: »
    the law;

    (1) A policy of insurance shall be of no effect for the purposes of this Part of this Act unless and until there is delivered by the insurer to the person by whom the policy is effected a certificate (in this Part of this Act referred to as a “certificate of insurance”) in the prescribed form and containing such particulars of any conditions subject to which the policy is issued and of any other matters as may be prescribed.

    Yes, that is the law, but what you have failed to mention (presumably because to do so would weaken your already spurious argument) is that it is not the case that 'delivery' requires that the insured has the certificate in their possession.

    I quote from page 2/22 of the Chartered Insurance Institute's Motor Insurance course book:

    "What constitutes delivered has been the subject of much debate over the years. It has been established that delivery need not necessarily be to the motorist personally but may be to their agent. An agent in this sense is wider than an insurance intermediary and, indeed, can include the Post Office.

    In law, therefore, the motorist is legally covered as soon as the certificate is posted or handed to them or their agent"
    pastra wrote: »
    In the post doesn't count

    Care to produce any evidence to this effect? Or is it just 'opinion'?
  • pastra
    pastra Posts: 101 Forumite
    raskazz wrote: »
    You assume incorrectly.



    Yes, that is the law, but what you have failed to mention (presumably because to do so would weaken your already spurious argument) is that it is not the case that 'delivery' requires that the insured has the certificate in their possession.

    I quote from page 2/22 of the Chartered Insurance Institute's Motor Insurance course book:

    "What constitutes delivered has been the subject of much debate over the years. It has been established that delivery need not necessarily be to the motorist personally but may be to their agent. An agent in this sense is wider than an insurance intermediary and, indeed, can include the Post Office.

    In law, therefore, the motorist is legally covered as soon as the certificate is posted or handed to them or their agent"



    Care to produce any evidence to this effect?

    I agree that the wording has been debated for years now, but legally it must be delivered not in the process of being delivered to comply with the law as it is written.

    This will be reviewed in 2010.
  • raskazz
    raskazz Posts: 2,877 Forumite
    pastra wrote: »
    I agree that the wording has been debated for years now, but legally it must be delivered not in the process of being delivered to comply with the law as it is written.

    Again, wrong. You are assuming a literal interpretation of the statute whereas case law indicates that the correct interpretation is a purposive one, which belies a lack of basic legal understanding.
  • All insurance policies are loaded onto the MID within a set time frame by all insurers and from my own experience, if the police cannot find the car insured on there they will either contact MIB or the insurance company concerned. If they cannot confirm it is by any of these methods thats the car is insured I understand they now have the right to take the car and impound it. From what I have delat with from customers I have spoken to it now sounds like they dont even give you a 7 day producer anymore.

    From what I understand (someone can correct me if im wrong) is that they only check the registration number. What I suggest if you have any feeling the insurance policy might have an incorrect part on your reg (eg. should be s not f or a letter that sounds similar over the phone) check it with your insurance company and get it updated asap so the MID can be as well and shouldnthave any problems.
    I like to think I can help but its for discussion purposes only so if I get it wrong please feel free to correct me.
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