We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Struggling BTL Investors
Options
Dithering_Dad
Posts: 4,554 Forumite
I have just noticed that there is a new sub-board on the DFW for people with IVAs and so I had a bit of a peek in there to see what was going on. I saw an interesting post from a BTL landlord who is considering entering into an IVA while still holding onto his property portfolio:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1346403
S/He is requesting advice on this subject and so I thought I'd post it into here so that perhaps some of this boards BTLers could provide any advice/guidance. Hopefully the OP won't mind me linking to his thread in here, but I thought he'd receive a wider audience as not many Housing/Economy board members seem to venture into the DFW board.
It may also be a useful resource for any BTLers who may be in financial difficulties themselves and are looking at their options.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1346403
S/He is requesting advice on this subject and so I thought I'd post it into here so that perhaps some of this boards BTLers could provide any advice/guidance. Hopefully the OP won't mind me linking to his thread in here, but I thought he'd receive a wider audience as not many Housing/Economy board members seem to venture into the DFW board.
It may also be a useful resource for any BTLers who may be in financial difficulties themselves and are looking at their options.
Mortgage Free in 3 Years (Apr 2007 / Currently / Δ Difference)
[strike]● Interest Only Pt: £36,924.12 / £ - - - - 1.00 / Δ £36,923.12[/strike] - Paid off! Yay!!
● Home Extension: £48,468.07 / £44,435.42 / Δ £4032.65
● Repayment Part: £64,331.11 / £59,877.15 / Δ £4453.96
Total Mortgage Debt: £149,723.30 / £104,313.57 / Δ £45,409.73
[strike]● Interest Only Pt: £36,924.12 / £ - - - - 1.00 / Δ £36,923.12[/strike] - Paid off! Yay!!
● Home Extension: £48,468.07 / £44,435.42 / Δ £4032.65
● Repayment Part: £64,331.11 / £59,877.15 / Δ £4453.96
Total Mortgage Debt: £149,723.30 / £104,313.57 / Δ £45,409.73
0
Comments
-
amateur btlers = crap landlords without a clue and ruiners of once nice neighbouroods with the any old scum they let in
my advice.........booom0 -
amateur btlers = crap landlords without a clue and ruiners of once nice neighbouroods with the any old scum they let in
my advice.........booom
Brilliantly constructed and well reasoned retort. Thanks for this amazingly helpful comment. :rolleyes:
Does anyone with more than twelve dendrites have anything to say?Mortgage Free in 3 Years (Apr 2007 / Currently / Δ Difference)
[strike]● Interest Only Pt: £36,924.12 / £ - - - - 1.00 / Δ £36,923.12[/strike] - Paid off! Yay!!
● Home Extension: £48,468.07 / £44,435.42 / Δ £4032.65
● Repayment Part: £64,331.11 / £59,877.15 / Δ £4453.96
Total Mortgage Debt: £149,723.30 / £104,313.57 / Δ £45,409.730 -
No. And I'm a bit p1ssed that I had to look up dendrites.Dithering_Dad wrote: »Does anyone with more than twelve dendrites have anything to say?0 -
No. And I'm a bit p1ssed that I had to look up dendrites.
Sorry, it is a hangover from my days developing Neural Networks and machine learning simulations - in the old days when I.T. was interesting.
Back then it was all Axioms, Soma, Dendrites and Neurons.Mortgage Free in 3 Years (Apr 2007 / Currently / Δ Difference)
[strike]● Interest Only Pt: £36,924.12 / £ - - - - 1.00 / Δ £36,923.12[/strike] - Paid off! Yay!!
● Home Extension: £48,468.07 / £44,435.42 / Δ £4032.65
● Repayment Part: £64,331.11 / £59,877.15 / Δ £4453.96
Total Mortgage Debt: £149,723.30 / £104,313.57 / Δ £45,409.730 -
Yup. This is making my blood boil. Honestly, I reckon I'm quite a moderate guy, and so on.
But to me the idea that one can even think about an IVA while keeping your "property empire" is absurd.
These guys took a punt. A highly leveraged one. They've gambled and gone bust (if not now, then soon). In simple terms they should work their way out of it or they should go bankrupt. I can see that they probably won't and that an IVA will end up the best net option for everyone (at least once you include the government and the IVA salespeople etc). And so the market is skewed because of the moral hazard.
But somehow to think you can keep the BTL property? Stupefyingly absurd.0 -
Morning all. Recovering from some very fine Polish mocne beer. This might have something to do with the fact I am not sure what is going on with the iva thread. Is the poster asking if you can keep your btl portfolio whilst on an iva? Ah more twists and turns of the great hpi fall out.0
-
I think the point is that the properties are all neg equity and so the "property empire" is nonexistant. What is really happening here is making sure that the BTL tenants are not impacted by the landlord's personal debts (i.e. their rental home is not repo'd and sold from under them).
I don't really see an issue with this, but then I don't like to see tenants being evicted due to their landlords debts.
I think the point of the IVA is that the landlord can 'work his way out of it' but without being crushed with charges and interest payments.Mortgage Free in 3 Years (Apr 2007 / Currently / Δ Difference)
[strike]● Interest Only Pt: £36,924.12 / £ - - - - 1.00 / Δ £36,923.12[/strike] - Paid off! Yay!!
● Home Extension: £48,468.07 / £44,435.42 / Δ £4032.65
● Repayment Part: £64,331.11 / £59,877.15 / Δ £4453.96
Total Mortgage Debt: £149,723.30 / £104,313.57 / Δ £45,409.730 -
I'm always wary of people claiming to be BTL LLs asking for controversial advice. I suspect them of being simple trolls. I'm probably wrong most of the time but my suspicions are there regardless.
The 'amateur' tag is a bit spurious. I'm an amateur I guess but I'm sure my tenant could not find a better LL - so maybe all LLs are amateur. What makes one a professional? Do they simply need enough properties to make it their sole form of income?
I dislike the bankruptcy/IVA laws completely. My view is that anyone who takes on debt should pay it all back. The ONLY concession I would offer, in extreme cases, would be to freeze interest at RPI + 1%.
As for the so-called BTL LL asking dumb-!!! questions, I'll save my energies for people with real problems taht I can identify with.
GGThere are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those that don't.0 -
Hi DD. I guess that, for the moment, if the landlord can keep up repayments on the "empire" then it should not be an issue IF the properties have been set up as a seperate company away from the personal debt.
My concern is for the tenant.Thinking about it, my guess is we will see at lot more of this. I wonder if Broon and bust has some sort of rescue package up his sleve for the plight of tenants. Oh I sometimes give up when it comes hpi and certain btl landlords. GG is excepted from that statement as he does seem to know what he is doing.0 -
Dithering_Dad wrote: »I think the point is that the properties are all neg equity and so the "property empire" is nonexistant. What is really happening here is making sure that the BTL tenants are not impacted by the landlord's personal debts (i.e. their rental home is not repo'd and sold from under them).
I don't really see an issue with this, but then I don't like to see tenants being evicted due to their landlords debts.
I think the point of the IVA is that the landlord can 'work his way out of it' but without being crushed with charges and interest payments.
I understand it's in the tenants' interest for the landlord to be able to keep the property. But I don't take your broader point.
Broadly, better the devil you know - tenant knows that landlord might lose property, than the devil you don't - tenants get s******d for life because landlords can't lose.
If the IVA allows the LL to work his way out of it, then basically the LL is allowed to offload the downside, while retaining an option on the upside. And to my limited knowledge he is getting paid, rather than paying, for that option. Yup, landlords can't lose.
And if landlords can't lose, then it stands to reason that tenants are paying for it, as this is a zero-sum game (pushing paper money around).0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 350.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.5K Spending & Discounts
- 243.9K Work, Benefits & Business
- 598.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.9K Life & Family
- 257.2K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards