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Savers you've never had it so good?

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  • harryhound
    harryhound Posts: 2,662 Forumite
    As more and more of our economy effectively becomes part of the "public" sector, the more opaque the whole thing becomes.
    [just follow the link in the above posting that explains how Council House rents are set]

    When I worked for a large multinational, a really good way or winding up a budget meeting was to say "this is just a Chinese Money" situation; this meant that the company in country A was was trading with a company in country B, but they were both wholly owned branches of "Mega corp".
    (It was even more complicated and litigation prone if they were only 50% owned)
    There may have been someone in "Mega corp." HQ who understood how the profits and losses netted out, but the ordinary foot soldiers were groping around in the shadows.
    Now substitute bankrupt "Global Bank", which probably has a turnover greater than the UK government, for "Mega Corp". Tell me that Alistair Darling understands how "investing" billions of tax payers money into it will not have unforeseen results.
    I suggest that nobody knows the outcome, but at present the world economy is spiralling downwards and the world is probably 5% poorer than it was 18 months ago.

    Remember a shortage of goods creates inflation just as much as an excessive supply of money.

    At the moment the world is cutting back on planting for the future and eating the cheap seed corn.
  • roddydogs
    roddydogs Posts: 7,479 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Trouble is, Gozo NO ONE believes that inflation is only 0.1%!! no matter what you or the Government says
  • john_s_2
    john_s_2 Posts: 698 Forumite
    roddydogs wrote: »
    Trouble is, Gozo NO ONE believes that inflation is only 0.1%!! no matter what you or the Government says
    I do.

    And I had to enter this cos messages have to be at least 10 characters.
  • harryhound
    harryhound Posts: 2,662 Forumite
    Reaper wrote: »
    There have been various posts on here saying Council tax, travel and food go up much more than official inflation figures suggest. So for balance here is the other side...

    Council tax: Council taxes in England are expected to only average 3% this year (ie same as CPI inflation)

    Well done Reaper, the BBC/Times/Telegraph are just catching up with you and publishing this on their traditional channels :
    http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=8705
    The graph in "your" story seems a bit bit disingenuous, as indeed is the first paragraph "Council Tax to Rise at 30 times rate of inflation" in this message. :rotfl:
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article5799214.ece

    Mind you these figures are based on a large survey and bad news tends to be saved until "a good day" [like 9/11 or 7/7] comes along to bury it. I wonder if the 3% includes the little ad-ons, such as the local police.

    Did we all spot the extra 4.5% [strike]grant[/strike] bribe with our own money offered for next year. Methinks there must be an election coming.
  • uih039
    uih039 Posts: 111 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts
    roddydogs wrote: »
    Trouble is, Gozo NO ONE believes that inflation is only 0.1%!! no matter what you or the Government says
    I do.


    So do I. Can't remember who used the phrase "in denial" on this thread, but all I can say is that some people seem to be "in denial" about the meaning of the word AVERAGE.

    Andrew.
  • uih039
    uih039 Posts: 111 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts
    gozomark wrote: »
    but savers aren't being punished are they ?

    3.5% 1 year fixed rate v 1% CPI inflation over the next 12 months = 2.5% real rates, which is better than "normal". Does everyone face 1% inflation, no of course, not, but that was equally true when inflation was 5%, but for some reason some savers prefer high inflation, even if real rates are lower than now.

    Thats my last post on this point - if anyone doesn't get it by now, they never will.

    Good bye and good night !

    Please don't go Gozo, I will miss the daily entertainment of this thread. Much better than an episode of East Enders ;)
  • beingjdc
    beingjdc Posts: 1,680 Forumite
    uih039 wrote: »
    So do I. Can't remember who used the phrase "in denial" on this thread, but all I can say is that some people seem to be "in denial" about the meaning of the word AVERAGE.

    Andrew.

    The thing is, inflation is only 0.1% if, like RPI, you include deflation in mortgages caused by the cuts in interest rates.

    So if you then say inflation is 0.1% so it's ok for savers, you're double-counting - you're using an inflation rate based on people who benefit from interest rate cuts, and applying it to people who lose out.

    Also, the VAT cut. I bet interest rates aren't raised to make up for that for savers when it's reversed!
    Hurrah, now I have more thankings than postings, cheers everyone!
  • When do you all think was the best time for savers in the past 20 years?

    .
  • beingjdc
    beingjdc Posts: 1,680 Forumite
    Probably the late 80s, interest rates well into double figures and inflation below 5%. As long as they weren't saving for a house, as we were in a bubble then. If they saved through that time, then bought in 93-94 though, job done.
    Hurrah, now I have more thankings than postings, cheers everyone!
  • gozomark
    gozomark Posts: 2,069 Forumite
    beingjdc wrote: »
    The thing is, inflation is only 0.1% if, like RPI, you include deflation in mortgages caused by the cuts in interest rates.

    So if you then say inflation is 0.1% so it's ok for savers, you're double-counting - you're using an inflation rate based on people who benefit from interest rate cuts, and applying it to people who lose out.

    Also, the VAT cut. I bet interest rates aren't raised to make up for that for savers when it's reversed!

    OK lets just look at CPI

    inflation last 12 months = 3% - interest earnt last 12 months 5-6%
    inflation next 12 months = 1% - interest on 1 year fixed rate 3-3.5%

    you need to compare like for like - comparing historic inflation with prospective returns is frankly idiotic
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