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Tax credits and 'chargeable events'

How does a 'chargeable event' affect the calculation of income for WTC and CTC purposes?

If you sell something at a profit does all the 'profit' count as 'income' or just the amount of 'profit' in excess of the annual CGT exemption itself?

I would imagine that only 'taxed profit' is what ends up going into the calculation of income since otherwise WTC and CTC would be lost through sales of items realising only trivial amounts of profit - which does not make sense of the general tendency of the tax credits system towards 'income fudging' [i.e. ignoring the first £2500 of any actual increase over the year before] for administrative reasons.

So my theory of why 'chargeable events' are asked for is to only take account [as 'income'] of any profit in excess of the annual exemption on gains [i.e. over about £8,500] and to IGNORE [as income] any lesser gains...

Am I wide of the mark or not?

Thanks
.....under construction.... COVID is a [discontinued] scam

Comments

  • irs101
    irs101 Posts: 250 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    That's a really good question - I'd never thought about it before.

    I think the answer is that you don't count capital gains at all in the income calculation.

    There are two rules of thumb:
    1. The TC income rules generally follow the income tax rules. As capital gains are not subject to income tax, then they shouldn't count as income for TCs.

    2. By realising a capital gain, you are only changing one type of asset (shares etc) for another (cash). That would imply that the proceeds are not income either.

    But I'm struggling to find anything that explicitly backs this up.

    The TC600 notes say (on p40):
    We will not normally take capital into account when we work out your tax credits. By capital we mean deposits in current and savings accounts at banks and building societies, many lump sum payments, the value of property, shares and other investments.

    I think "lumps sums" could cover capital gains.

    Furthermore the income regulations don't mention capital gains anywhere (implying that they don't count as income).

    There are some definite exceptions to this. Things like stock dividends count as income, and there is what's called 'notional income'. So if you structure your return from an asset as a capital gain rather than a dividend solely to increase your TCs, then you have to count it as income anyway. But most people don't have that type of control over their returns - unless you own shares in your own business - and anyway, even if you did do this, you would often be able to construct another plausible reason for doing it that HMRC wouldn't be able to argue against.

    Finally, if you are buying and selling physical assets solely to make a profit, it would count as trading anyway and would come under the 'trading income' rules for both income tax and tax credits.

    But on regular capital gains that most people get on their personal investments, then I don't think it would impact directly on the amount of tax credits you are entitled to (of course, you have to declare dividends and interest from your investments).

    Does anyone have a differing interpretation or knows for sure?

    irs
  • Milarky
    Milarky Posts: 6,356 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    Thanks for that reply irs. However TC600 makes this reference:
    Also include here a ‘chargeable event’ gain from a life insurance policy. For tax credit purposes, we need to know the full amount of that gain, before any ‘top-slicing’ relief for income tax purposes.

    So they say they need to know the value of any gain.... why would they want to do this?

    It's my understanding that [non-exempted] gains are taxed 'as income' [and therefore at your 'top rate' - or not at all if the gain fell within your 0% tax allowance in a year that you had no other 'income', for instance] so it does make sense to consider this 'taxable' portion as liable for TC taper reduction. [But I'm only conjecturing on this, of course]

    For a benefit designed to make life easier for 'poor' people Tax Credits are probably the most complicated system ever devised by the Revenue. [It does make you question their sanity or connection with the 'real world']

    Anyway, we'll just leave it open for others to try and explain how gains are taken into account...

    [Assuming they are! - I found a mystery 'box' at work yesterday that had a trailing data cable that went around a bukhead when it could have trailed behind it and out of sight. So, whilst the power was offer anyway, I unhitched the connector and put the cable around the back and then carafully reattached it as before. Then, before putting power to the main unit back on again, I noticed that the mystery box had a separate power cable itself that had never been plugged in any way! In other words, it did nothing!!. Maybe the revenue has a similar approach to the use of capital gains?]
    .....under construction.... COVID is a [discontinued] scam
  • irs101
    irs101 Posts: 250 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    Yes, I saw that. But that's specifically talking about life insurance policies, which have their own tax regime, completely separate from the normal Capital Gains regime. So I don't think it's relevant to what you're asking.

    While the capital gains regime interacts with the income tax regime, as you say, it is dealt with by separate legislation (the CGTA I think). So if you were to bring capital gains into the income calculation for TCs, the TC income regulations would have to refer to the CGTA (to take account of the taper relief rules, which would also apply), which they don't.

    I know from past experience that HMRC are normally meticulous about making the distinction between income and capital. If it turns out that capital is included as income, then the legislation is drafted extremely sloppily.

    irs
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