We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Doctor who worked for ATOS says benefit assessments 'unfair'

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Posts: 958 Forumite
edited 16 May 2013 at 7:43PM in Disability money matters
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22546036

A doctor who worked for the private company which assesses people for disability benefits says its methods are "unfair".
Greg Wood, a former Royal Navy doctor, resigned from Atos earlier this month, after working as an assessor for two-and-a-half years.

He told the BBC the system was "skewed against the claimant".
But Atos Healthcare says it submits "clinically justified reports" and completely refutes Dr Wood's claims.

Atos, which has been criticised in the past by disability campaigners and MPs, carries out work capability assessments (WCAs) on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP)

Claimants have to score a required number of points in order to qualify for the full sickness benefit under the Employment and Support Allowance (ESA).

In a statement, Atos said: "We never ask healthcare professionals to make any changes to a report unless there are specific clinical quality issues identified within it.

"We do not deviate from government guidelines in our training. We do not have targets for getting people on or off benefits.

"We have a large team of fully trained doctors, nurses and physiotherapists who provide a professional and compassionate service through what we recognise can be a difficult and emotional process for people..

"We are a professional and ethical organisation."

'Compelled to speak'

In an interview with the BBC, Dr Wood says he believes Atos assessors are not free to make truly independent recommendations.

He said he felt compelled to speak out because it was "embarrassing to be associated with this shambles".

"It's very unfair on the people making claims, they deserve a fair assessment and as a taxpayer I'm pretty cheesed off about the £100m plus that's being sprayed away on this dog's breakfast," he said.

The assessments - or fit to work tests - sparked protests from disability campaigners after their introduction in 2010.

But Dr Wood has criticised some of the tests which he says contain "dubious concepts and shaky reasoning".

He claims assessors are told that if a claimant can walk from the kitchen to the sitting room, it proves they can walk 200m (650ft);

and if a person can dress themselves once during the day that is proof they have enough concentration and motivation to hold down a job.

He insists these rules are not published in handbooks and guides, instead they are simply spoken about in training sessions.

Mr Gibson said the rules detailed by Dr Wood were incorrect and several questions were asked to build up a complete picture, alongside the medical evidence.

Dr Wood, who was given special responsibility to champion mental health at Atos, said: "I was instructed to change my reports, to reduce the number of points that might be awarded to the claimants. I felt that was wrong professionally and ethically.

"My view is the government has tried to catch more people in the net than the current test allows by pulling strings behind the scenes to get the result they most desire," he added.

Mr Gibson said a report was only changed if there was insufficient medical evidence to back it up.

There were "no targets to take people off benefits" and that had always been the case, he added.

'Highest level'

Dr Wood says the people being most adversely affected by the system have significant, mid-ranging disabilities, such as Parkinson's disease, mental illness, and head and spinal injuries.

He also claims some of the most severely disabled people are being asked to attend face-to-face assessments, instead of the normal practice of examining their application on paper.

He says he saw a lot of people who had suffered severe strokes and brain damage.

"There was a man with a motor neurone condition who I actually put in the terminal illness group," he said. "He should not have come for a face-to-face assessment. It was cruel and he was hopping mad."

The DWP said between March and May 2012, 58% of decisions to award the full sickness benefit were made on paper only, so did not require a face-to-face assessment.

Employment minister Mark Hoban says the evidence speaks for itself.

"When we came to Office one in 10 people were getting the highest level of support. That has now gone up to three in 10," he told the BBC.

"What's important to me is to make sure the decisions which are made are good quality decisions and people are getting the right support."

He said the assessments had undergone several independent reviews and were devised in conjunction with health professionals and charities.

"The percentage of people entitled to ESA is now at its highest level with over half of people completing an assessment eligible for the benefit," a DWP spokesman added.

Labour MP Tom Greatrex, who has asked a series of Commons questions on the assessments, said Dr Wood's allegations were "serious and shocking" and he had written to the prime minister asking for an investigation.

"The head-in-the-sand approach Tory ministers are adopting isn't good enough," he said.

"They need to get a grip on this chaotic process which is not only causing misery for some of the most vulnerable members of our society, but also costing taxpayers a fortune at a time when we can least afford it."

Atos senior vice president Wayne Gibson told the BBC it was "surprised and concerned that someone thinks we are unethical".

"We don't make the decision about who gets a benefit or not.
"Our role in the process is to do an assessment, gather the medical evidence and write a report that goes to the department, upon which they can gather more evidence and make a decision."

In a later statement, the company said the claims were "false and damaging".

It added: "Clinical judgement is the foundation of our part of the Work Capability Assessment process. We send the DWP independent, clinically justified reports to help the department's decision makers make a decision on benefit entitlement...

"We are a professional and ethical organisation which has carried out this work on behalf of the department for over a decade.
"Atos Healthcare conducts its business based on a code of ethics and a strong legal compliance culture."

Have you been assessed by Atos for disability benefits? What was your experience of the process? Please get in touch using the form below.
«13

Comments

  • Brassedoff
    Brassedoff Posts: 1,217 Forumite
    Just seen this on BBC 1 News and even the reporter nailed them.

    The Doctor was told to change reports from unable to work, to being fit for work. The Doctor was visibly upset.

    Then ATOS were interviewed and actually said "we check their lifestyles as that can mean they are fit". What a cheek!!!!!!

    Well done Dr Woods. A decent, honest, human being.:T
  • - for those who missed it
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • skintmacflint
    skintmacflint Posts: 1,083 Forumite
    Just wonder why it took him 2 and 1/2 years to decide to leave?
  • halight
    halight Posts: 3,629 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Just wonder why it took him 2 and 1/2 years to decide to leave?

    Like everyone else,

    Money!
    He needed It and was willing to do what it took to get it.

    He came good In the end and left.

    I only hope that his talking out about his time working for ATOS dose not hurt his chances with other Jobs or his career.
    :jYou can have everything you wont in lfe, If you only help enough other people to get what they wont.:j
  • tracy0770
    tracy0770 Posts: 86 Forumite
    it not all about the money, he could of just stayed there for the 2yrs to get all the evidence or it could of gone wrong way, not enough, so well done for him for speaking up for us all
  • Just wonder why it took him 2 and 1/2 years to decide to leave?

    - doing the right thing can cost not only your job but your entire future job prospects
    - faced with that fact its entirely possible doing the right thing needs to be carefully considered
    - whistleblowers are harassed & bullied by co-workers and management alike
    - vicarious liability which is supposed to protect a whistleblower does between little and zilch to help
    - there's plenty of evidence that tribunals come to wrong decisions against whistleblowers time and time again
    - this leaves the whistleblower devastated, unemployable and financially destroyed
    - importantly that same wrong tribunal decision 'gags' the whistleblower and the public never find the disclosure

    Greg Wood should be applauded, regardless of the time before disclosure - it takes a lot of guts to go against a multi bi££ion pound company and the weight of this vindictive government. I said in a thread a year or so ago, history will eventually re-visit every single person involved with delivering ATOS. I hope each and every son daughter mother who worked there as a HCP is prosecuted and vilified for what they have done.

    If the Nuremberg Defence is removed, clearly they used their training and skills to reduce good people to suicide in many cases, 'only following orders' and therefore not responsible for their acts and omissions when removed makes their so called clinical judgement so poor each and every one of those sons daughters mothers who took the 'dirty shilling' working for ATOS should be struck off from participating in their field, regardless of status ie ,doctor / nurse / CP / OT etc.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • rogerblack
    rogerblack Posts: 9,446 Forumite
    Greg Wood should be applauded, regardless of the time before disclosure - it takes a lot of guts to go against a multi bi££ion pound company and the weight of this vindictive government. I said in a thread a year or so ago, history will eventually re-visit every single person involved with delivering ATOS. I hope each and every son daughter mother who worked there as a HCP is prosecuted and vilified for what they have done.

    I disagree with the above.

    In the absence of the vague possibility that no doctors, nurses, midwifes, or others that can be trained as HCPs will all as a block refuse - do you want those that deliver the reports to find it easy and painless?

    Or do you want them to have a conscience that is troubling them, and they are attempting to do their best for claimants, in the face of regulations that make it difficult?
  • JS477
    JS477 Posts: 1,968 Forumite
    I suppose what disabled people want is to be treated fairly and with dignity and not be treated in the manner which has shocked so many people including MPs (recall the atos debate a few weeks ago) for example Here

    This will not be achieved when atos is working for a government which is target driven e.g. McVey has stated that the DWP wants at least 500,000 off DLA. Atos will do as they're told if they want the taxpayers' £millions.

    Personally I couldn't work for a company like atos, probably because I do have a conscience and I suppose a sense of decency and fair play. Some people [obviously] can but I just couldn't look at another sick/disabled human being as a target!
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
    Richie-from-the-Boro Posts: 6,945 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 20 May 2013 at 8:54PM
    rogerblack wrote: »
    I disagree with the above.

    In the absence of the vague possibility that no doctors, nurses, midwives, or others that can be trained as HCPs will all as a block refuse - do you want those that deliver the reports to find it easy and painless?

    Or do you want them to have a conscience that is troubling them, and they are attempting to do their best for claimants, in the face of regulations that make it difficult?

    - the purpose and design of LiMA is to a GOV specified outcome objective
    - any individual with or without previous medical training can be taught to use LiMA and deliver the 'assessment'
    - monkeys could, with good quality bribe-bananas be taught to use LiMA and deliver the 'assessment'
    - I'm sure all HCP's know this, its part of their initial and ongoing training program

    It, [LiMA] is built on the original Chris Grayling lies and continues with an even bigger lie teller IDS, just last week the GOV's own UK Statistics Authority gave IDS a reprimand that broke from the genteel language of the civil service because Duncan Smith's claims were "unsupported" by the very statistics his department had collected. Andrew Dilnot, the chair of the statistics authority, is thinking about sending his inspectors into the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) because Duncan Smith is a habitual manipulator of GOV statistics.

    My point is that the whole of welfare delivery has at its centre a core of deceit and manipulation. LiMA and the apparatchiks that are the HCP's are just the GOV's tool for delivering that lies & deceitful onslaught on this Islands disabled ill and unemployed.

    If it is your claim that what the HCP's are doing is """attempting to do their best for claimants"" I disagree with your understanding. In my view the HCP's have no illusions and are aware from the get-go on day one of their employment with the agency that regardless of what their clinical judgement is the LiMA system they are being paid to deliver will do what its pre-set to do.

    The duties of their contract of employment not regulations that make it difficult mean they, the HCP's are paid to act as the axeman for our Government, they and ATOS are merely the person paid to wield the axe. What I'd like to see is an honest version of LiMA designed as it is for 'can do profiling' with the clinical judgements of HCP's allowed to determine who is and is not / DLA work capable. If in time a judicial inquiry is held into the manipulations of the welfare budgets reduction delivery system, I'm hope each and every person involved in its front line delivery is 'struck off' for being party to 'not putting patients needs first'.

    Anyone can propagandise .. .. IDS has consistently misled the public, the governing politicians of all parties, and parliament itself.

    Recently politicians from all sides heckled the megalomaniac liar that is IDS, and accused him of 'butchering the statistics' IDS restrained by Parliamentary security guards had to be forcibly removed to loud jeers in what became one of the noisiest sessions in the house for decades when it became clear that the disastrous reassessment programme had had caused untold misery for many thousands of claimants; sadly some having died after being declared 'fit for work' by a system which looks as though it has now been manipulated in to setting up claimants to fail.

    One minister demanded the immediate suspension of Duncan Smith saying " it is simply shocking and beyond belief that government ministers have vilified the claimants with stringent and prohibitively expensive testing aimed at showing them up falsely as scroungers when in reality many more claimants are in some way being either encouraged or advised to take up a much greater number of sick claims than we've ever seen in the past is absolutely deplorable. The government wilfully enters in to an orgy of assessment where claimant upon claimant was being spun around a badly managed programme which needs to come to an end now before any further harm is inflicted upon people merely because government is out to prove people are fit when many are obviously far from fit. The real reason GOV want claimants appealing for the sick is to make short term [not long term] claims for unemployment benefit - it helps butcher the ONS figures.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • rogerblack
    rogerblack Posts: 9,446 Forumite
    If it is your claim that what the HCP's are doing is """attempting to do their best for claimants"" I disagree with your understanding. In my view the HCP's have no illusions and are aware from the get-go on day one of their employment with the agency that regardless of what their clinical judgement is the LiMA system they are being paid to deliver will do what its pre-set to do.

    This is very far from the truth, in some cases.
    While LIMA can have a large amount of input in some cases, the HCP is free to input large amounts of free text (and in both of my WCAs did).

    Am I claiming that the system is as designed fair for claimants, if everyone performs their jobs to the best of their abilities - no. In many cases it is systematically unfair due to the specific condition being poorly captured by the descriptors, and the problems many claimants may have with evidence due to their conditions.

    But, it's a hell of a lot better if they do make the effort, driven perhaps by conscience than if they are simply treating it as better paid than burger flipping, and less walking than doing hospital rounds.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 351.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 454.1K Spending & Discounts
  • 245K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 600.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177.4K Life & Family
  • 258.7K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.